From: Craig Columbus (Craig.Columbus@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
Date: Wed May 01 2002 - 13:23:12 GMT-3
Peter,
How long have you been subscribing to this list? Howard was a meaningful
contributor long before his online rack venture.
But, playing devil's advocate, let's say that you're right. Let's say that
Howard only contributes to draw people to his for-profit ventures.
What's wrong with that? He contributes a VAST amount of information for
free everyday. If it leads to people buying his books or renting time on
his racks, more power to him. I don't know if you're in the USA or another
country, but capitalism is what makes the USA great. If it weren't for
capitalism, there'd be no Cisco. They didn't start the company for a love
of networking. Cisco, and every other for-profit venture, was started
because the founders had enough knowledge to build a product that they
thought people would want to buy. They were in it for the MONEY.
So, even if Howard's contributions to the list were purely motivated by
profit, it still wouldn't change the fact that he contributes to the
knowledge of thousands of list members each and every day. If he makes a
billion dollars for doing so, I'll be the first to congratulate him on his
success.
Regards,
Craig
At 12:11 PM 5/1/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>His contributions are purely for monetary purposes. I know that most people
>on this list clearly see that. It's all business not out of the kindness of
>his heart. He contributes hoping you'll be so impressed that you'll buy
>labs from his partners and rent rack time from his company. Surely you're
>not this clueless and I know most people on this list are not fooled.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Craig Columbus" <Craig.Columbus@columbusconsulting.com>
>To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Cc: <hcb@gettcomm.com>; <perosenthal@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 11:43 AM
>Subject: Re: CCIE #9240
>
>
> > I can't tell if I'm reading poor sarcasm or pitiful ignorance.
> > I surely hope it's an attempt at sarcasm....
> >
> > Howard contributes more meaningful commentary to this list per day than
> > most could contribute in a year. I, for one, appreciate that he takes the
> > time out of his schedule to participate. I'm sure most others feel the
> > same way.
> >
> > Thanks Howard.
> >
> >
> >
> > At 11:13 AM 5/1/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Howard just likes to impress people with all of his supposed "contacts"
>and
> > >his smoke screen of knowledge. The guy is obviously a bookworm and has
> > >never worked on a real network. He always talks about things he has
> > >"written" and not work he's actually done. Now I'm sure Howard will
>respond
> > >with his classic list of places he's consulted for. But, most of us know
> > >he's full of shit. Apparently Howard feels that his name carries some
> > >weight like Doyle (excuse me while I die laughing). Hopefully most of us
> > >see him for what he is. He uses this list as spam and gets away with it
> > >cause Paul is being paid advertising $$$ from a few vendors that Howard
>is
> > >affiliated with. His book is definitely worthless and thankfully I
>looked
> > >through it before buying it. Another bookworm that frequents this list
>has
> > >a crap design book out too. I used it to help get the fire going in my
> > >fireplace. The funniest part is she reviewed his book on Amazon! I
>wonder
> > >how many of Howard's other buddies and co-workers helped promote this
>crap.
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "Ludwig A. Morales" <morales_l@hotmail.com>
> > >To: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
> > >Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > >Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 7:59 AM
> > >Subject: Re: CCIE #9240
> > >
> > >
> > > > listen, unlike the rest of the people here I couldn't care less that
>you
> > > > find my comment useful or not, trashing people is usually a way to
>make
> > >you
> > > > feel better about yourself. I read your Designing Routing and
>switching
> > > > architecture a few days ago, didn't find it that useful, and you
>didn't
> > >see
> > > > me here trashing your book right? because that was just my point of
>view.
> > > >
> > > > My good old daddy use to say:
> > > >
> > > > There's not much greatness in holding honors, greatness comes from
> > >deserving
> > > > them"
> > > >
> > > > And those with CCIE (either hi or low numbers deserve to be CCIE,
>maybe
> > > > except for those that found their number in a corn flake box, anyone?)
> > > >
> > > > Sure JEFF (so you now him!!, great can you get me an autograph :P )
>was
> > >not
> > > > the first one to write about the Lollipop-Shape Sequence number space,
>now
> > > > when someone ask me from who did I learn about that, his getting the
> > >credit
> > > > because that's the book I've read, my comment was simply to
>demonstrate
> > >that
> > > > many "experience" networkers don't event open a book, "heckk what do
> > >need
> > > > a book for or a cert as well I've been troubleshooting for X year"
>(yeahh
> > > > stupid but maybe you've been doing it the wrong way).
> > > >
> > > > A Final comment, I would relay more on a rookie doctor that just
>graduated
> > > > from medical school that from someone that just have "experience" in a
> > > > surgery room and haven't been properly trained.
> > > >
> > > > PS. Once again experience has great weight (of course I put my 6 years
>in
> > >my
> > > > resume, though I've only been working with Cisco for 2 years, do my 6
> > >years
> > > > of experience means more to someone than Munib 2 Years with a CCIE, I
> > >don't
> > > > think so) I just see it wrong to take credit from the guys that
>recently
> > > > pass the exam, what do you feel threaten!!
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Howard C. Berkowitz" <hcb@gettcomm.com>
> > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:21 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: CCIE #9240
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > At 9:14 PM -0400 4/30/02, Ludwig Morales wrote:
> > > > > >Cool dude, this is the logest tread i've seem im this mailing
>list's
> > > > history
> > > > > >without using "NDA" .
> > > > > >I was thinking to let it slide myself but naaaa.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >First of all the fact that he took less time than you could provee
>that
> > > > the
> > > > > >exam is easier now or that he's more discipline and more inteligent
> > >than
> > > > > >you, that depends on your perspective and the choise that less
>ofends
> > > > you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Now to the CCIE Vs. experince stuff, i may be wrong but i think
>you
> > >are
> > > > > >comparing apples and oranges, i think i told this story before but
>well
> > > > what
> > > > > >the heck..
> > > > >
> > > > > Be careful about comparing anything to apples or you may irritate
> > > > > Priscilla. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > >.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >in the first CCIE bootcamp i took our instructor conducted an small
> > > > survey
> > > > > >to measure the level of all atendees by making a list of the
> > >tecnologies
> > > > he
> > > > > >was about to explain by drawing two columns on a sheet, one was
>your
> > > > > >teorical experience and one was your practical experience regardig
>each
> > > > > >technology, one of the atendees sheets came to he's atention when
>he
> > >saw
> > > > > >that unlike all the rest of us this dude had more practical
>experience
> > > > than
> > > > > >theory, when he asked how come his answer was that he was able to
> > > > configure
> > > > > >and troubleshoot up to a point but for him sometimes the router was
> > >like
> > > > the
> > > > > >black box of a plane, he didn't know what the hell was inside of
>it.
> > > > when
> > > > > >the TAC told him to change some parameter he simply did it and did
>not
> > > > > >understand what was the purpose (this dude has been working with
>Cisco
> > > > for 4
> > > > > >years) so you see, CUIE does give you something, the knowledge of
>how
> > > > each
> > > > > >thing works, I dare anyone with more the 5 years of experience but
>with
> > > > > >never laying a hand on Doyle's to explain to me how igrp calculate
>it's
> > > > > >metric (remember the k values?) or the Lollipop-Shape Sequence
>number
> > > > space.
> > > > >
> > > > > :-) But how did JEFF learn it? (Actually, I asked him, and he got
> > > > > some informationr released, by Dino Farinacci IIRC). The lollipop
> > > > > sequence came from Radia Perlman (I was the reviewer of Jeff's OSPF
> > > > > chapter), and I believe she and/or the standard is credited. The
> > > > > best writeup of the lollipop is in her Interconnections book --
> > > > > better, I think, than John Moy's.
> > > > >
> > > > > >.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Well anyway for those of you in the track dont let a coment like
>this
> > > > > >disapoint you, he's not right, he's not wrong that's just his point
>of
> > > > view
> > > > > >and you should not be worried about it (unless Robert is your boss,
> > > > jejejje)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >good luck to us, work hard and congratulate those who have achive
>their
> > > > goal
> > > > > >that helps us all aswell.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >OH and one last question, do you wake up in the morning and have
>all
> > >the
> > > > > >kwoledge to pass a CCIE exam? No? Then how do you get this
>kwoledge?
> > > > > >Uhhhhh trough experience?
> > > > >
> > > > > Take a look at a picture of Scott Bradner sometime; he has a slight
> > > > > resemblance to Santa Claus. Vint Cerf is no spring chicken. They
> > > > > still study.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >PS, been working in IT for 6 years now (thank God i'll be a CCIE
>that
> > > > have
> > > > > >been pushing and pulling routers for 6 years)
> > > > >
> > > > > let's see...I first started programming in 1966 or 7 (it blurs) and
> > > > > actually put together my 1st network in 1970. Hmmm...this week, I've
> > > > > learned some things about the application of control theory to
> > > > > routing protocols, about measurement timing issues in OSPF
> > > > > performance measurement, in some legal requirements for crypto in
> > > > > medical networks, and have been Perl programming since last week!
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