From: Devil Boy (devilboy7117@xxxxxxxxx)
Date: Thu Jun 27 2002 - 16:42:19 GMT-3
Gentlemen,
you both bring up some very good points in their own
right. You are actually both right. Without
criticizing one side or the other allow me to shed
some light and possibly generate a different
perspective on the CCIE certification.
First, Cisco loves these type of arguments. The good
little desciples will get their own lab that will
include 2621s with V-WICs to play with in Heaven.
Something we all wanted when we were studying, right?
If you're not a CCIE by then you can study day and
night in the afterlife.
What they don't want you to think about is the lab is
an industry. Plain and simple. There are 8 seats in
RTP at $1250.00 a seat 7 days a week. That's 70 grand
a week. San Jose has 2 or 3 times the capacity.
They're pulling down 8 million dollars a year in lab
fees in the US. How many Cisco Press books does
everyone have. To be a contender you have to have
Doyle, Vol I and II, Halabi and Solie at a minimum.
That's about 250 in books per candidate. We all know
that's a pittance compared to what all of us spend to
get educated on Cisco. I'll bet most CCIE Candidates
have more like 10 Cisco Press books.
While this is a long and difficult pursuit some people
rank it with an almost transcendental state of mind.
It boils down to cookbook engineering. It's almost
all been done before and documented. Nothing new is
being discovered or created. CCIE is not allowing us
to paint a masterpiece or make a scientific discovery.
We only posses our own drop in the well of
internetworking knowledge.
Paul
--- "Paglia, John (USPC.PCT.Hopewell)"
<JPaglia@NA2.US.ML.com> wrote:
> Well said, Jason!!! The CCIE lab is ANYTHING BUT a
> read-a-book-and-pass
> certification. In fact, I bet if you poll those who
> have failed at least
> once, I bet ALL of them would say that lack of
> hands-on practice was their
> demise.
>
> Dave, get your head out of your posterior and
> realize the CCIE lab for what
> it is...the hardest and most prestegious cert there
> is!!! This ain't no
> Microisoft Cert! HAHAHAHAHA!!!
>
> Pags
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jason Sinclair
> [SMTP:sinclairj@powertel.com.au]
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 7:51 PM
> > To: 'DAve Diaz'; msnyder@ldd.net;
> RichardK@knowledgenet.com
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: Life to too short. (was RE: My lab
> experience)
> >
> > All
> >
> > Sorry to chime in but who the hell are you to
> judge the effort involved in
> > obtaining this certification. Go read a book
> elsewhere. It is this
> > arrogant
> > condescending attitude that makes a lot of people
> sick. All you guys who
> > are
> > still studying go ahead - don't listen to
> ill-informed people such as Dave
> > here. Perhaps Dave you can study from a book,
> remove yourself from this
> > list
> > and never touch a router. I have seen in a
> previous post that you have not
> > sat the lab. I would never normally advocate
> talking about those who have
> > the cert against those who don't, but how the hell
> can you judge this when
> > you have not sat it let alone passed.
> >
> > To all the guys and gals on this list who don't
> carry on like this, I
> > apologise for this post, but people like Dave here
> get me riled. I have
> > stated before that I hire staff and I look for a
> number of things
> > including
> > certs and experience. Don't let this guys attitude
> put you off.
> >
> > Think of the lab like a game of sport (Soccer pops
> to mind for some
> > reason!!) - you may not like all the rules,
> however you know the ground
> > rules when you start and win or lose those are the
> rules. If you don't
> > like
> > the rules change games.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jason Sinclair CCIE #9100
> > Manager, Network Control Centre
> > POWERTEL
> > 55 Clarence Street,
> > SYDNEY NSW 2000
> > AUSTRALIA
> > office: + 61 2 8264 3820
> > mobile: + 61 416 105 858
> > email: sinclairj@powertel.com.au
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DAve Diaz [mailto:ddiaz106@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, 26 June 2002 20:56
> > To: msnyder@ldd.net; RichardK@knowledgenet.com
> > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: Life to too short. (was RE: My lab
> experience)
> >
> > ccie means jack today I did an interview of four
> of them and ended up
> > recommending a non-ccie becasue of his experience
> and troubleshooting
> > skils,
> >
> > sadly ccie does not tell you the level of exp. or
> T/S skills someone has,
> > ,
> > ccie is only a benchmark and ambition for those
> ready to put oup with
> > cisco's crap and obscure questions,
> >
> > Who needs to configure rip/igrp or ipx these days
> whn cisco's cd
> > practically
> >
> > tells you how, many ,many get by ccie lab and have
> no idea, sorrry pissed
> > off after seeing such poor technical experince and
> knowledge from 4 ccie;s
> >
> > what a joke, ccie's are book learner's,
> >
> >
> > >From: "Michael Snyder" <msnyder@ldd.net>
> > >Reply-To: "Michael Snyder" <msnyder@ldd.net>
> > >To: "'Richard Kleimon'"
> <RichardK@knowledgenet.com>
> > >CC: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > >Subject: Life to too short. (was RE: My lab
> experience)
> > >Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2002 21:01:58 -0500
> > >
> > >From a message posted by Richard Kleimon.
> > >
> > >"This list is for information and to help people.
> If you are going to do
> > >that then stay the hell off!"
> > >
> > >Yo Bro, we are a virtual community.
> > >
> > >How could you be on the list for a year and not
> realize that that you
> > >have to take the good postings with the bad
> postings?
> > >
> > >In many ways, this study list is like having a
> thousand people in a one
> > >room school house. I believe even with all those
> excess broadcasts, we
> > >are doing something that has never been done
> before, in the history of
> > >the world.
> > >
> > >Think of years of experience that can be drawn
> from, at any one time.
> > >You think clustering computers is neat? Our
> community has terraflops on
> > >top of terraflops of some of the best thinkers in
> our field.
> > >
> > >I don't know the number of active members at any
> one time, nor the
> > >number of countries of those members, or the
> number of people who will
> > >read these messages in the future. But I do know
> we are world wide, and
> > >nearly in realtime.
> > >
> > >When it seems like (to use your words), everyone
> is chiming in. You are
> > >right. We are chiming in. How could you be part
> of a community without
> > >people talking about issues that impact our
> group, and/or some talking
> > >in general. Thought my mailbox might wish
> otherwise.
> > >
> > >Talking about the limits of the NDA, is something
> I think is very
> > >normal.
> > >
> > >It's limits are important, and also, hair
> splitting is required in our
> > >field. The same critical thinking that allows us
> to understand a
> > >complex OSPF design, also requires asking
> critical questions of most
> > >things. To explore our limits the same way
> another community would
> > >explore the hills and valleys around it's home.
> > >
> > >One of the fun things about talking about nda
> issues, is that you can
> > >break it by talking about it. Reminds me of the
> FCC rule about the seven
> > >words you can't say on radio. Good circle logic.
> > >
> > >Anyway, in short.
> > >
> > >
> > >Yes, please post messages that are within the
> scope of study.
> > >
> > >But, also remember that we are human, and also
> that your great, great,
> > >grand daughter may be reading your posted
> messages in 2160.
> >
>
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Tue Jul 02 2002 - 08:12:42 GMT-3