From: Tom Larus (tlarus@cox.net)
Date: Wed Sep 18 2002 - 10:00:04 GMT-3
I have to admit there was something wonderful about the study momentum you
gain near the point of taking the CCIE (the "peak", as you call it.)
Passing was great, but then after a couple of weeks, one almost sort of
wants the intensity and feeling of progress again. I can now see why people
go right from R&S to Security or C&S. I used to think it was sort of crazy.
As for me, I need to focus on job-hunting and making more progress writing a
short study guide on approaching the CCIE Lab that I hope will be good
enough to be published, and wrapping up my silly conspiracy theory novel
(which I shelved to work on the CCIE-- a "keep your day job" decision).
Job-hunting is no where near as much fun as preparing for the CCIE. I felt
like like passing the CCIE Lab was much more within my control (it was just
a matter of time and effort) than finding a good job in a good location in
this market.
Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Lu" <albert_lu@optushome.com.au>
To: "'Gibbs, John'" <John.Gibbs@cwcom.cwplc.com>; "'Paglia, John
(USPC.PCT.Hopewell)'" <JPaglia@NA2.US.ML.com>; "'certstudy'"
<certstudy@snet.net>; "'rich'" <rich@pixguru.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 8:13 AM
Subject: OT: RE: Re: MS-CCIE
> Some good comments. Anyone who doesn't love internetworking will find it
> difficult to earn their CCIE and progress further after they got their
CCIE.
> It's a long hard road towards studying for the CCIE, if you're miserable
and
> having to force yourself all the time, then it's going to be tougher after
> the CCIE when you realise there is so much more you don't know and need to
> learn.
>
> I loved the time when I was persuing my CCIE, the lab time, the research,
> the discussion with other engineers. Now after I've been a CCIE for close
to
> a year, I actually miss being in such a peak all the time. But I'm
learning
> about so many other technologies, and also even taking that CCIE knowledge
> to another level (YES!... you can actually learn even more about BGP,
OSPF,
> EIGRP, etc etc).
>
> I love reading whitepapers from various vendors and technical publications
> (just to keep cisco honest), best practise papers, and looking at new
> potential revenue generating technologies out there.
>
> And just the other day, I found out how easy it was for me to drive around
> the city and hack into people's wireless networks (*evil grin*)
>
> So for all the people studying hard for their CCIE, enjoy yourself,
> challenge yourself, keep learning and everthing else will eventually fall
> into place.
>
> Regards,
>
> Albert Lu
> CCIE #8705
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Gibbs, John
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:47 PM
> To: 'Paglia, John (USPC.PCT.Hopewell)'; 'certstudy'; rich;
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Re: MS-CCIE
>
>
> Hi guys
>
> I have to agree with John and Chuck, etc here - Rich is attacking the very
> certification he hopes to achieve, but I also understand what Rich is
trying
> to say in that he feels that the CCIE may become devalued with the influx
of
> so many new CCIEs. What I say to you all is that we all have our own
> reasons for going for the ultimate certification, and who are we to
question
> the motives of other people? This is a very emotive subject, but there are
a
> few obvious reasons for the drop in CCIE salary rates;
>
> 1) As was mentioned in a previous reply, the current market climate
> dictates that as the marketplace has more CCIEs than ever before, salaries
> will drop, perhaps temporarily, to compensate for that.
> 2) More and more people are now trying to achieve CCIE certification, and
> it appears that more are succeeding.
>
> I have my lab booked for early next year, and I can honestly say that I am
> not bothered about how many CCIEs there are in the world, 8,000 or so
fully
> qualified CCIEs is not a huge number considering the worlds population.
It
> used to be said that people went for the CCIE certification to command a
> better salary, in this current market, this is obviously not the case, as
we
> have seen CCIE salaries drop dramatically. I would say that this shows
that
> the people who are now going through the CCIE are the ones who are doing
it
> for the right reasons - they love what they do, are willing to make
> sacrifices, and will be proud to have that number by their name.
>
> Regards
> John Gibbs CCNP CNE ACA
> Senior Network Consultant
> Engineering Services
> Service Delivery
> Internet Services
>
> Cable & Wireless
> Delivering the Internet promise
> www.cw.com <http://www.cw.com>
>
> email: john.gibbs@cw.com
> Tel: 44 (0)1793 362334
> Fax: 44 (0)1793 362062
> Mob: 44 (0)7786 854837
> Post ISC Windmill Hill Business Park, Whitehill Way, Swindon, Wiltshire,
SN5
> 6LA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paglia, John (USPC.PCT.Hopewell) [mailto:JPaglia@NA2.US.ML.com]
> Sent: 18 September 2002 03:37
> To: 'certstudy'; rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Re: MS-CCIE
>
>
> Ya gotta wonder about the thought processes of someone who joins onto a
CCIE
> Study list, then trivializes the very thing the list was created for to
it's
> hardworking and insightful members. And to top it all, this same person
> admits that HE HIMSELF desires the attainment of this cert.
>
> Hey, if it's as overpopulated, trivialized and non-lucrative as you think,
> why not direct your typing energy elsewhere??? Don't hang around for our
> benefit!!!
>
> Pags
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: certstudy [SMTP:certstudy@snet.net]
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 10:01 PM
> > To: rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: OT: Re: MS-CCIE
> >
> > As you did Rich, I am sharing my thoughts here. The comments are not
> > meant
> > towards you personally but they are meant to
> > try and shine a light on the fact that way too many people are after
this
> > gig for the $$ and not for the Joy of Internetworking.
> >
> >
> > > A couple of years ago, at the height of the dot com era, a CCIE in my
> > area
> > > could easily pull in 150k. Did I start down this road for the money?
> > Hell
> > > yes. I already had field experience, a good job, seniority, respect,
> > and
> > all
> > > that stuff that makes work fun. Besides, CCIE would be a challenge.
> > But
> > a
> > > LOT has changed in the past couple of years. Bad economy. Fewer
jobs.
> > > Lowered salaries. And apparently a butt load of CCIE's! I mean wow!
> > And
> > to
> > > hear that many of them are just lab ccie's really brings the 8000+
> > CCIE's
> > into
> > > a different light. It brings my own efforts into the same light. It
> > reminds
> > > me of what happened to Novell certifications... I had just gotten my
CNE
> > when
> > > I heard the term 'paper CNE' about a guy at the same company who
carried
> > cue
> > > cards around to customers with commands written on them.
> >
> > Interesting--so you dont think that the growth in the Internet and the
> > fact
> > that companies' reliance on
> > their own networks and the growth of networking in general has had
> > anything
> > to do with the increase
> > in the number of CCIE's. There are currently over 150000 networks in a
> > full
> > Internet routing table. can you imagine
> > how many devices and networks are behind these?
> >
> > I will acknowledge the fact that pay rates have come down to realistic
> > ranges again. this is due more to the economy than to the number of
> > CCIE's
> >
> > >
> > > I haven't gotten my ccie yet but I'm hoping to. My chances would
> > probably
> > be
> > > greatly enhanced by going to a boot-camp, but I feel that would just
add
> > to
> > > the problem.
> >
> > How is going to a boot camp adding to the problem? The boot camps that
> > are
> > at the top of the list include
> > instructors which Cisco itself calls on to 'Alpha" test new versions of
> > the
> > tests. There is probably not one of us here who can say
> > that he or she uses ALL of the tested technologies daily. what is the
> > difference between locking yourself in a room for months or going to a
> > week
> > long
> > intensive session where you can practice in a structured environment.
For
> > me a good bootcamp means maximizing my study time and working on speed
and
> > time management which i personally have trouble doing alone in my home
> > lab.
> >
> > >Maybe limiting the number of active CCIE's in a country would
> > > keep the certification from getting too bloated. Or maybe just stop
the
> > > certification process now or at a fixed number. Or better yet, allow
no
> > more
> > > than 1000 a year (total) to be certified. Candidate selection process
> > could
> > > be a weighted drawing (increased chances every year).
> >
> > This makes huge sense. I can hear it now from the Cisco reps...."I am
> > sorry
> > mr customer, we just cant sell any more routers this year.
> > All of the qualified individuals that we have for support are too busy
and
> > we cant certify any more this year. We wouldnt want to water
> > down the value of the certification.....Hello....Hello....hmmm mr
customer
> > must have hung up. I wonder why??"
> >
> > CCIE and all of the certifications are Cisco certs and it is in Cisco's
> > best
> > interest to have a well trained and certified support
> > infrastructure so they can sell more product.
> >
> > I think if we move to Guadalupe, Puerto Rico, Belarus, Lithuania,
Latvia,
> > Yugoslavia, Zimbabwe, Morocco, Bahrain, Jordan, Quatar, Kazakhstan, Sri
> > Lanka or Vietnam you can be the second CCIE in any of those areas and
> > probably demand a very, very high salary.
> > >
> > > I'm not trying to criticize anyone's efforts, but rather express the
> > results
> > > of those efforts. It's kind of liking moving into a new, quiet,
> > expensive
> > > neighborhood. It's great until everyone else moves in, and suddenly
> > that
> > > expensive house isn't worth what you paid for it.
> >
> > If all we are doing this for is to get into the fancy neighborhood, we
are
> > doing it for the wrong reasons.
>
>
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