From: Jonathan Hays (nomad@gfoyle.org)
Date: Thu Feb 26 2004 - 15:33:02 GMT-3
Very well put, Tom. It's refreshing to see a post that is a reminder to
avoid simplistic, binary thinking, which incidentally is exactly what
the CCIE candidate needs to avoid when sitting for the lab exam.
Thanks!!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On
>Behalf Of Thomas Larus
>Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 11:41 AM
>To: Q A; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>Subject: Re: CCIE
>
>
>I think CCIE training camps, even the ones that do not offer one-on-one
>instruction, can be very helpful. Still, you really should know "the
>basics, the basics, the basics" before you go, so you can
>absorb the subtle
>lessons a good training camp should teach. (I do not teach
>CCIE classes, so
>I am not saying this out of fear for my job).
>
>And then, as you say, work on getting the basics right some
>more. It is
>amazing how easy it is to make mistakes involving the basics.
>Forgetting to
>put a loopback interface or LAN interface into a routing
>protocol, or making
>a simple mistake with a mask or wildcard mask, or making a
>mistake involving
>static frame relay mapping. One must maintain vigilance.
>
>I did not go to a one-on-one CCIE training place, but I can
>understand why
>that would be valuable. But it is not the only kind of CCIE
>training class
>that has value. I went to one that provided exactly what I needed. It
>covered many technologies, rather than assessing your
>weaknesses early on
>and then focusing on them. It reviewed basic landmines and potential
>glitches, and introduced many subtle and advanced ones.
>
>Just as importantly, it cleared up some points where there are
>errors in the
>literature (even in their own excellent book). It also
>introduced a point
>or two that I perhaps should have run across in my own
>studies, but had not
>learned. The example that sticks out is the command to reset
>DLSW+ that is
>kind of analogous to clear "ip bgp *" ("dlsw disable," and "no dlsw
>disable"). It seems obvious and trivial, but I had not
>noticed or absorbed
>that useful command yet. A lot of things that we all know now
>were not so
>much a matter of common knowledge a year and a half ago.
>
>The class made new wrinkles in my brain about IS-IS
>interface-type mismatch
>issues and multicast RPF issues and BGP next-hop reachability.
> Perhaps many
>candidates know about these problems now at an earlier stage
>in their CCIE
>lab preparation.
>
>Some people say that one-on-one instruction is the only sort
>of CCIE class
>that has any value, and this is not always fair to the
>alternatives. I am
>not saying this applies in this poster's case, but I have seen too many
>posts praising the one-on-one instruction, and deriding the
>old-fashioned
>CCIE classes. In a few cases, someone took the old-fashioned
>class, but did
>not pass until after getting the one-on-one instruction. This does not
>necessarily indicate that the old-fashioned class was somehow
>inadequate or
>inferior, but could be due to a the student being at a
>different stage when
>attending the first boot camp from when he or she later got
>individualized
>instruction. I was barely ready for the boot camp I attended,
>and I felt
>pretty underprepared for the half of it. If I had attended
>the class one
>month earlier, I would have been struggling so hard on
>configuring the basic
>stuff right, that the more advanced and subtle lessons and
>pointers would
>have sailed over my head.
>
>I went on to fail the first try a few weeks after the boot
>camp, but I knew
>that I was not quite ready to pass, and the boot camp had helped me to
>understand where I was in my preparation. I passed on the
>next try, nearly
>two months after the class, so I learned a lot in that class
>and in those
>two months after that class. In fact, one really basic thing
>I learned in
>that class (relating to efficient switching between routers
>connected to the
>terminal server-- embarrassingly basic stuff) helped me to be more
>efficient with time and mental energy in my practice, which
>permitted me to
>learn more in two months than would have been possible if I
>stuck to my old,
>inefficient ways.
>
>Also, to say that the last training one attended was the only one with
>value, and that all the others were a waste, is like saying "I
>found the
>object I was looking for in the last place I looked. Therefore, I was
>wasting my time when I looked anywhere else." You may well
>have learned
>things from the other classes that allowed you to get to the
>stage where you
>could focus on getting the details right and learning
>advanced and subtle
>lessons.
>
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
>Author of CCIE Warm-Up: Advice and Learning Labs
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Q A" <hkdnow@yahoo.com>
>To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 10:06 AM
>Subject: CCIE
>
>
>> I finally got the number 12915!!
>> I have been lurking groupstudy for a while. After
>> going through it and buying countless labs, books and
>> countless rack rentals. If someone is beginning or in
>> the journey just remember basics basics basics. And
>> before wasting your money at training camps. Did I say
>> it yet review you basics. But then review your basics
>> again :) I have also been to some training camps. The
>> only one I have been to that talks the talk and
>> provides one on one interaction to understand the
>> concepts and configure the concepts every which way
>> that is even conceivable. Even when you may be telling
>> yourself this is inconceivable. Cyscoexpert if you
>> want the best it is Cyscoexpert.
>> A house build on mud will slide into the sea. But a
>> house build on a solid foundation will forever hold.
>>
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