From: joshua lauer (jslauer@hotmail.com)
Date: Sat Feb 19 2005 - 12:25:35 GMT-3
Excellent write up...I completely agree, sometimes you have to try and
fail.........to succeed. CCIE is just one stepping stone in the path of
learning. It's not a stopping point.
jl
Joshua Lauer
RHCE, MCSE, CCNA, CCDA, CCDP, CCNP, CCIP, CCSP,INFOSEC, CEH
----- Original Message -----
From: "CCIE Group Study" <ccie@madisonsolutions.net>
To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 19, 2005 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
> Good morning:
>
> Capitalistic behavior is not greed. Cisco's focus has always been, and
> will always be marketing. Nortel and Lucent have focused on engineering
> not marketing. Microsoft only introduced its certification program after
> the wildly successful Novel certification program.
>
> These decisions are made as capital decisions; "it's business, not
> personal". Asking American business to develop a socialist agenda managed
> by big government assumes that resources are scarce, resources are not
> scarce in the electronic age, (Third Wave).
>
> As CCIE's we are the car mechanics. If you want to work for a dealership,
> the factory, or for the client that is your preference as a CCIE. I like
> it that way. We are still in an industry that allows you to work for
> yourself with the respect of our clients because of the certification
> process.
>
> Tools like Testking is not the reason for the success of the CCIE program
> or future failure of the CCIE program. Cisco at a gut level fully
> understands what is required; to understand, and build effective business
> networks. Look at the CCNA program it is much more than just point and
> shoot at a web page. The volume of successful CCNA candidates has
> affected the market price, not Testking.
>
> The certification programs that are no more than http://, point, click,
> point, click, click remain low on the income strata simply because
> businesses need IT people to have an intuitive understanding of the
> business process and how IT can help streamline the business, not just
> point, click, click.
>
> Take Wal-Mart; IT is core to their business strategy, for Sears and K-Mart
> IT counts beans. Wal-Mart wants CCIE's that understand the business needs
> first then, click, click, click.
>
> The failure of Microsoft MCSE's is not TestKing but rather the lack of
> business smarts incorporated into the MCSE. This is Microsoft's problem
> and will impact market share in the business sector over the long term.
>
> Linux success is in no small part due to the university environment that
> many Linux managers and applications are created in. RedHat came from the
> NC University system, e-Mail came from the NC Universities. To say
> nothing about the Internet, (it was not Al Gore or government) but the
> university engineering schools, (BIND, Kerberos, e-Mail, etc.).
>
> We all know of MCSE messes, and I thank you, my family thanks you, etc.
> From the beginning of your introduction to Cisco, business models are an
> integral part of your training, Core, Distribution, Access, 7-Layer cake,
> etc.
>
> The answer for your business success is not Testking but a love for what
> you do, and having the ability to get knocked down (fail the test) and get
> back up and try again. Having a test with such a low passing rate is not
> what is respected, but the acquired knowledge and respect that IT has for
> those that continue to try.
>
> For the rest of the world, point, click, click, click, away.
>
> George Morton, Ph. D.
>
> Now get back to your labs you Router RATS !!!
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
> To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 10:47 AM
> Subject: RE: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
>
>
>> And now we have taken a large step towards the absurd.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> dillon yang
>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:59 AM
>> To: Rick
>> Cc: Group Study
>> Subject: Greed is one of the deadly sins__Re: Testkink and such
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> Greed is one of the deadly sins.
>> TestKing may be the 100% greed.
>> NLI, NMC and so on may be the 50% greed.
>> Cisco itself may be the 20% greed.
>>
>> =======================================
>>
>> Why?
>> Cisco generated a certification like CCIE just for itself's products,
>> not
>> for BAY that made the first switch, not for 3com, and so on. A CCIE is
>> just
>> like a watcher for Cisco products. Since, Cisco should train the
>> candidates
>> on the cuff for its partners and clients! Now Cisco requires the
>> candidates
>> spend a lots of dollars and valuable leisures on acquiring it that is not
>> equitable like GRE for some REREAD reason. So, Cisco has taken valuable
>> societal resources(including the failed candidates) for its private
>> purpose. The man that got CCIE must be very smart, but is still not
>> eligible
>> to take part in the process of making routers and switches, and is not
>> eligible to share the free drinks in Cisco's office.
>> Cisco displaced its responsibility with the society, that should be
>> fulfilled by a vendor, then it is something about greed. So is 3com, and
>> so
>> on.
>> Since Cisco declare that "CCIE is not a training based certification",
>> then NLI, NMC and so on are somethings about greed, too.
>> TestKing is JUST exceed what is proper.
>> IMHO, I think the original intention of CCIE is for rewarding the extra
>> experienced engineers, without courses, without guessing lab contents.
>> dillon
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Rick" <rick@iptool.net>
>> To: "Etchings, Jay" <EtchingsJ@ally.com>
>> Cc: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 8:24 AM
>> Subject: Re: Testkink and such
>>
>>
>>> I am curious to what you mean by the "cert game". Every thing I have
>>> read
>>> about in the past says Vendors actually lose money directly on the cert
>>> programs. Now, I will be the first to agree that they more than make up
>>> for it in reduced support cost and name recognition as a result of
>>> offering the certs. For example as a CCIE, I am more likely to purchase
>>> or
>>> recommend Cisco and I "should" be able to better troubleshoot Cisco
>>> products, reducing the amount of times I have to call support.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > There may come a day when any respected certification will require a
>>> > "hands on lab" Microsoft has already pondered this scenario. The
>>> > vendors
>>> > make so much in the cert game; even if you cheat they still get their
>>> > money.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > I think hands on exams would end all these sort of debates.
>>> >
>>> > Just my 2 cents,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Jay Etchings
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > Jay Etchings
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________________________________
>>> > Subscription information may be found at:
>>> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
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