From: Guyler, Rik (rguyler@shp-dayton.org)
Date: Mon Sep 05 2005 - 12:55:59 GMT-3
John, I'm in Tim's corner on this one.  The lab Blueprint I printed out
6/28/2005 has Mobile IP listed under section V "IP and IOS Features".
However, looking at the current Blueprint on CCO today, Mobile IP is now
nowhere to be found.
Rik 
-----Original Message-----
From: John Matus [mailto:jmatus@pacbell.net] 
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:22 PM
To: swm@emanon.com; 'ccie2be'; 'John Matus'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
Subject: Re: Top Reasons Me & people with enough skill fail the lab
hehe......sorry scott, merely a continuation of our NDA and isdn switch-type
discussion :) what was the original question btw?? i'm was responding to
tim's suggestion that ip mobile was "not" on the exam.  i don't believe that
cisco has stated anywhere that it is "not" fair game for the exam, much the
same way is i can say that voip is not on the R&S exam.
Regards,
John D. Matus
MCSE, CCNP
Office: 818-782-2061
Cell: 818-430-8372
jmatus@pacbell.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
To: "'John Matus'" <jmatus@pacbell.net>; "'ccie2be'" <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>;
"'John Matus'" <john_matus@hotmail.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:50 PM
Subject: RE: Top Reasons Me & people with enough skill fail the lab
> Why am I being sucked into this?  Am I somehow the NDA Nazi?  (No 
> offense to Nazis, of course)
>
> I won't feel bad letting everyone know that I had X.25 and Decnet on 
> my exam.  While likely an NDA violation, it falls into that concept of
"BFD"
> kinda like "IP" being on your exam.  However, the original question 
> was specific.  In fact a bit TOO specific which is (I believe) how we 
> got where we are now.
>
> *shrug*  I'm going back to kicking someone's ass at Internet Reversi.  
> ;)
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf 
> Of John Matus
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 10:43 PM
> To: ccie2be; 'John Matus'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Top Reasons Me & people with enough skill fail the lab
>
> is it an NDA to discuss "topics areas" that appear on the exam?  for 
> instance, can i say that "IP" may appear on the exam?....what about 
> being so bold as to say "yes, i had IP on my exam".  probably the 
> later is a
> violation but not the former.   scott?  whaddaya think?
> if one says that IP "may" appear on the lab, can another candidate 
> logically infer that IP does and will appear on the test?  that is 
> probably inductive rather than deductive and probably hence no a 
> violation, unless cisco's NDA covers inductive references or other 
> matter of relative truth.
>
>
>
> "when asked if ip mobile would be on the exam, the buddhist master 
> knocked twice on the table"
>
> "if ip mobile might appear on the exam...don't knock twice on the table!"
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> John D. Matus
> MCSE, CCNP
> Office: 818-782-2061
> Cell: 818-430-8372
> jmatus@pacbell.net
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ccie2be" <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>
> To: "'John Matus'" <john_matus@hotmail.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 4:46 PM
> Subject: RE: Top Reasons Me & people with enough skill fail the lab
>
>
>> John,
>>
>> This was posted on Group Study not that long ago and I also saw it 
>> somewhere on Cisco's web site but can't find it now.
>>
>> Did you do a search for mobile ip in the GS archives?
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: John Matus [mailto:john_matus@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:00 PM
>> To: ccie2be@nyc.rr.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: Top Reasons Me & people with enough skill fail the lab
>>
>> tim,
>> what leads you to believe that mobile IP is NOT on the lab.  (i'm not 
>> sure that it would be a violation of the NDA to say what might lead 
>> me to believe
>>
>> that is IS on the lab)
>>
>> john
>>
>>
>>>From: "ccie2be" <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>
>>>Reply-To: "ccie2be" <ccie2be@nyc.rr.com>
>>>To: "Group Study" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
>>>Subject: Top Reasons Me & people with enough skill fail the lab
>>>Date: Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:12:18 -0400
>>>
>>>This is a repost of an earlier with a different subject line.
>>>
>>>Gustavo,
>>>
>>>Having failed the lab many times, I can sincerely say I feel your 
>>>pain (Actually, until Tuesday I could honestly say I've been feeling 
>>>your pain for the past 2 years).
>>>
>>>So, what I'm about to say is for those people like yourself, who have 
>>>enough knowledge and skill to pass the lab but still fail anyway.
>>>
>>>Personally, I believe there are 4 primary reasons people who should 
>>>pass the lab don't.
>>>
>>>1.  Task mis-interpretation
>>>
>>>2.  Insufficient organization during the lab
>>>
>>>3.  Not seeing the implied requirement
>>>
>>>4.  Insufficient checking and verification
>>>
>>>
>>>Here are the some of the things I did to overcome the first problem.
>>>
>>>I think there are 3 reasons people mis-interpret the task requirements:
>>>
>>>1.  Cisco, by design and with malice of intent, often writes the 
>>>tasks in a vague or misleading way.
>>>
>>>For example, if you've been following GS posts over the past couple 
>>>of weeks, you may have noticed questions regarding Mobile IP.  
>>>However, Mobile IP is not on the lab. This was a response to a 
>>>question re: forwarding Mobile IP registration broadcasts.
>>>
>>>"Ip forward protocol with IP helper is what I would use...you can 
>>>forward mobile-ip registrations which are udp...I'm not sure about 
>>>your configuration but that's what it appears to me what you are 
>>>trying to do.."
>>>
>>>Reading between the lines, it seems to me that a task could be 
>>>written with the words Mobile IP in it where the solution has nothing 
>>>to do with configuring Mobile IP.  Now, I can't speak for anyone but 
>>>myself but I know that if I read a task with the words Mobile IP in 
>>>it, I would AUTOMATICALLY think about having to configure Home Agents 
>>>or Foreign Agents or something related to that.  Not in a million 
>>>years would it occur to me that the solution was really calling for 
>>>the ip forward udp command.
>>>
>>>Could it possibly be that the proctors who write these labs would be 
>>>so wicked?  I think the answer is definitely YES.
>>>
>>>On the other hand, there are ways to combat this wickedness. First of 
>>>all, DON'T ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE SUCKED INTO THE BLACK HOLE OF WASTED 
>>>TIME.
>>>Losing the points of one or two non-layer connectivity tasks won't 
>>>automatically cause you to fail the lab.  I had at least 2 tasks on 
>>>my lab which I didn't even attempt to answer and I still passed.
>>>
>>>2.  Reading the task too quickly (or not carefully enough)
>>>
>>>To combat the scourge of task mis-interpretation, slow down.  Yes, I 
>>>said it.  Slow down.  Read the complete set of bulleted sub-tasks 
>>>slowly and multiple times.  Here's what often happens when you don't 
>>>slow down.  You read the task too quickly and realize you know how to 
>>>do that and you configure the task using the most common method or 
>>>the way you're most familiar with - and you're wrong.  You make the 
>>>assumption that just because you know A way to fulfill the task 
>>>requirements, you are fulfilling the task in THE correct way.  Of 
>>>course, it doesn't appear that you're wrong because you verify 
>>>reachability and you have reachability but you didn't fulfill all the 
>>>conditions of the task.  Bingo !!! At least another 2 or 3 points 
>>>lost.
>>>(You might also lose points for subsequent tasks because of
>>>dependencies.)
>>>
>>>Here's another example.  "Allow pings to bring up the isdn link" 
>>>which is not exactly equal to "Allow icmp traffic to bring up the isdn
link".
>>>
>>>Consider this.  Does "Allow pings..." mean "Allow ONLY pings..."?
>>>
>>>If your acl is like this:  access-list 100 icmp permit any any
>>>
>>>This acl does in fact "Allow pings..." to bring up the link but it 
>>>also allows other traffic as well.  What should you do? Will the acl 
>>>above cause points to be lost?  I don't know for sure but I suspect 
>>>that it's better to be as specific as the task allows.
>>>
>>>
>>>This brings me to next KEY reason people mis-interpret the task:
>>>
>>>3.  Not knowing every way to accomplish a given task.
>>>
>>>Of course, the best to deal with this problem is easily said but not 
>>>that easily done.
>>>
>>>KNOW EVERY WAY TO ACCOMPLISH A GIVEN TASK.
>>>
>>>The lab is FAMOUS for restricting your choices for how something is done.
>>>For example, there are 3 ways to advertise a loopback in OSPF without 
>>>a
>>>32
>>>bit mask.  There are 3 ways to advertise the ip address assigned to 
>>>an interface in IS-IS.  There are multiple ways (at least 3 that I 
>>>know of) to assign an ip or ipv6 address to an interface.  There are 
>>>a gzillion ways to configure isdn to back up lost connectivity 
>>>somewhere else in the network.
>>>There are multiple ways to overcome reachability problems.
>>>
>>>Here's my list:
>>>
>>>1.  Redistribution
>>>2.  NAT
>>>3.  Default network
>>>4.  Static route
>>>5.  Tunnel
>>>6.  Policy based Routing
>>>7.  Summary Addressing
>>>8.  Virtual-links
>>>
>>>When you don't know every way to accomplish a given task, it's easy 
>>>to be faced with the dilemma of thinking, "They must mean ...".  So, 
>>>then you configure something that seems to be pretty close to what 
>>>they were asking for but not 100% exactly what they were asking for. 
>>>Bingo !!! Another 2 or
>>>3
>>>points down the drain.
>>>
>>>
>>>Now, I'll talk about the 2nd reason I think people fail the lab.
>>>
>>>Insufficient organization during the lab
>>>
>>>This could also be referred to as STUPID MISTAKES.
>>>
>>>We all make them and I suspect I do much more than most people.  For 
>>>example, let's say early in the lab (in the section on bridging and 
>>>switching), you have to configure f/r end-to-end keepalives.  So, 
>>>that's what you do.  You check it. It works. You go on your merry 
>>>way.  Later on, you're working on the QoS sections and you have to 
>>>configure FRTS.  So, that's what you do.  You check it. It works. You 
>>>go on your merry way.
>>>But,
>>>if you're anything like me, you didn't notice that the interface you 
>>>applied the FRTS to were the same ones already configured for FREEK.  
>>>Whoops !!!
>>>
>>>Another 2 or 3 down the drain.
>>>
>>>You can probably think of hundreds of examples like this where you do 
>>>something early in the lab only to do something later in the lab that 
>>>breaks your earlier configurations.
>>>
>>>To address this problem which probably caused me to fail multiple 
>>>times, I started getting in the habit of making lists during the lab.  
>>>If I have to create an acl or map-class, I write it down on the 
>>>scratch paper they hand out at the beginning of the lab.  Then, if at 
>>>any later point in the lab, I need to create another acl or 
>>>map-class, I first check to see if I've already had to create one 
>>>before and on which interface.  I also used to create a list of every 
>>>loopback interface and make a note of which IGP it's in. When I'm 
>>>done with the IGP section I check to see if I've advertised every 
>>>loopback. I don't do that anymore.  Now, I use a tcl script to check 
>>>that.  But, the list method worked fairly well before I was 
>>>comfortable with using TCL scripts.
>>>
>>>Reason # 3 people fail: MISSING THE IMPLIED TASKS
>>>
>>>Let's assume for a moment you take the lab and only do what they 
>>>explicitly tell you.  If they didn't EXPLICITLY tell you to do 
>>>something, you didn't do it.  How many points would you lose?  My 
>>>guess is at least 6 to 9 points.
>>>Of
>>>course, they did tell you full reachability was required at all times 
>>>perhaps in the general directions but not in any of the numbered 
>>>sections of the lab.  Hmmm.  How do you combat this challenge?
>>>
>>>The way I tried to address this challenge was by making lists. For 
>>>example, I have a short list of things to check for ospf and bgp. 
>>>Before leaving the IGP section, I looked at my IGP diagram and looked 
>>>for any potential virtual-link or gre tunnel requirement. Not only do 
>>>I look for the obvious v-link requirement but also a potential 
>>>requirement if the frame relay cloud went down.  It's amazing how 
>>>often a v-link or gre tunnel becomes required when the f/r link goes 
>>>down.  For another example, with BGP, I always used to forget 
>>>configuring the neighbor ... next-hop-self command.  Before moving 
>>>from BGP, I always check, do I need to configure next-hop-self.
>>>
>>>As my last example, if there's any task that has anything to do with 
>>>time, I automatically think "SET CLOCK".  This includes acl's with 
>>>time-ranges,
>>>logging, ntp, etc.   Now, I know there's been extensive discussion her on
>>>GS
>>>about whether or not it necessary to set the clock if the routers are 
>>>rebooted anyway at the end of the lab and those routers without 
>>>hardware clocks will reset the clock to the default after a reboot.  
>>>But, if I see any task that relates to time in any way, I make a 
>>>beeline to the proctor.
>>>
>>>
>>>And, of course, look for tunnel and NAT requirements.  Refer to the 
>>>reachability list shown earlier.  So, make your list of potential 
>>>implied requirements and look for them.  Let this list be your mental
trigger.
>>>
>>>TOP REASON # 4 people fail the lab: Insufficient checking and 
>>>verification
>>>
>>>I used to assume that if I knew how to do something and then did it, 
>>>I did it correctly.  Experience has painfully and expensively taught 
>>>me that's the wrong assumption.  I now assume when it comes to 
>>>configuring routers and switches that anything I've configured IS in 
>>>some way large or small, WRONG.
>>>
>>>In other words, I nominate myself as the world's number one ccie most 
>>>likely to make configuration mistakes. Maybe I'm a bit dyslexic. 
>>>Maybe it's because I hate configuring routers and switches. Maybe 
>>>it's because my mental wiring just isn't configured properly for 
>>>configuring routers and switches.
>>>Whatever the reason, I suck at configuring routers and switches and 
>>>make loads of mistakes while doing so.  But, yet on Wednesday I became a
ccie.
>>>
>>>Having a deep awareness of my weakness in this area and yet being 
>>>determined and convinced of my ability to join the club, I had to 
>>>figure out a way to overcome this handicap.  It wasn't easy.  But, 
>>>here's what I did.
>>>
>>>I practiced finding mistakes by using various show and debug commands.
>>>For
>>>example, I would misconfigured a dlci or ip address in a frame relay 
>>>map and then study how that would affect the output of the show fram 
>>>map command.
>>>I
>>>did the same for every technology covered by the lab.  Slowly, 
>>>painfully, tortuously, I got reasonably competent at finding my 
>>>mistakes reasonably quickly.  I still don't consider myself very good 
>>>at troubleshooting but, what the hell, I'm still a ccie.
>>>
>>>So, my final words of advice to anyone wanting to be a ccie is this.  
>>>Ask yourself, "What is your level of determination to become a ccie?" 
>>>If your answer is, "I am 100% committed to this.", then figure out 
>>>what your weaknesses are and how you're going to overcome them.
>>>
>>>If I can do this, so can you.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>_____________________________________________________________________
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>>
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