From: keith tokash (ktokash@hotmail.com)
Date: Fri Feb 22 2008 - 13:47:07 ARST
Weird, I did the same thing. Telco -> Big Four security consultant -> by the
gods I'm bored and miserable someone stick a knife in my face so I'll know
that I'm even alive -> network team in hardcore fast-paced startup. To be
honest I know now why you see a lot of the same people in startups all the
time - it's addicting. The brutal emergency-room feel, where you either get
it done now, or the site goes down. It's geek crack. Any normal job now
would feel like semi-retirement.
As for money, I see two routes open in front of me, and there's no reason
anyone at a CCIE level couldn't do either.
1. Find a new company, or a small one, with decent growth potential. Get in
there and own that network's face off, play nice with others, and make manager
-> director -> VP -> CTO (about director level you turn bourgeoisie)
2. Get your CCIE, get a teaching job at the nearest junior college, start
consulting for companies your students, co-workers, or other contacts work
for. Charge $300/hour. If that fails, charge $200/hour
I've already seen both strategies work for people who I found to be pretty
good geeks. Not spectacular by any means, but solid with decent people
skills. If you are waiting for salary to make you rich, dig in with a series
of long Russian novels, because you're going to be waiting quite a while.
With a few exceptions, secrecy is deeply incompatible with democracy and with
science.
--Carl Sagan
> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:18:37 +0200
> From: sheherezada@gmail.com
> To: ccieteam@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: Moving away from Cisco
> CC: smorris@ipexpert.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>
> Well, in a previous life, I tried to move away not only from Cisco,
> but away from engineering. The drive was that no matter what I did,
> the salaries in the SP domain were capped (and if you didn't liked
> that, there was plenty of cheap talent to take your place). So I
> moved to a Big Four, doing security audit. Know what? The job was
> boring (even if money was twice as good). It was so boring that I
> wished I go back to what I did previously, to the networking drug. I
> switched again the battle filed, eventually. The fun thing that
> happened was that after that, potential employers saw no longer a pure
> techie - I felt like a noble businessman or something. Now, looking
> behind, I am very pleased with that experience because I learned
> simple things like talking to somebody that is not an IT person or
> structuring my communication, all in one making me a better
> consultant.
>
> Bottom line, I think that the learning curve slows down in time - a
> way to boost your learning is to forget what you know, get a fresh
> perspective, and then return, but from a higher point.
>
> Mihai
>
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2008 at 1:28 AM, Alan Chng <ccieteam@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for all the overwhelming responses.
> >
> > FYI, I've had the pleasure to work for Cisco and a few large
> > organizations(SP and enterprise), and absolutely had a ball of a time
> > esp over whiteboard discussions...
> > This also includes picking up other vendor skills such as F5, NetApp and
> > Juniper and I certainly agree with Scott's statement that CCIE teaches
> > you the interworkings of protocols rather than the IOS, which is more
like
> > what CCNA caters :)
> >
> > Reason I mention abt moving away from Cisco is a recent opportunity with
> > another vendor advertising CCIE-level candidate but willing to be trained
&
> > involved in purely Layer 1-2, 2.5(MPLS) for migrating customers from
legacy
> > ATM, FR, TDM networks to the IP/MPLS core. L2VPN stuff basically no IP
VPN
> > or anything IP related except management perhaps.
> >
> > Obviously, financial benefits will be justified for the switchover and
> > perhaps you become a Subject Matter Expert, so in that sense I mean
you're
> > not one of the many but become one of the 'few'. Yet the thought of not
> > working with routing protocols, or IP does twiddle my mind a bit. The
fun
> > level just seems to dip a bit ;-)
> >
> > The fact I'm discounting Juniper is I see them as equivalent to Cisco
since
> > the 'protocols' are simply applied in a different manner as prev stated.
> >
> > Has anyone been in similar circumstances, made the leap and walked away
> > smiling? The industry we're in is so fast-paced that stepping away for a
> > couple years can mean a lot of lost time. just look at the CCIE
> > numbers these days ~ :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 2/21/08, Scott Morris <smorris@ipexpert.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I suppose the first question would be why you were discounting
> > > Juniper. The
> > > second would be why it had to be a rold of complete isolation?
> > >
> > > Either way, one of the nice things is that the basic technologies (for
the
> > > most part) are pretty much the same vendor to vendor. You'll have CLI
> > > differences, you'll have different intracacies and proprietary things,
but
> > > most stuff won't vary that much.
> > >
> > > So (IMHO) it's a mistake to look at the CCIE as simply a familiarity
with
> > > IOS. That's a secondary feature. You've likely learned more about
things
> > > like OSPF, BGP and multicast operations than you normally would. The
fact
> > > that you can do it in IOS is nice, but doing it in JUNOS isn't all
that
> > > much
> > > different. The theory is mostly the same.
> > >
> > > If you're looking for something ENTIRELY different (you note less
> > > competition, so one has to wonder) then I suppose it would simply be a
> > > matter of what happens to interest you at any point in time. In which
> > > case,
> > > the CCIE has become a lesson of process and/or troubleshooting. Both
> > > skills
> > > which should not be underestimated.
> > >
> > > From a consultant's viewpoint, I always look at things to ADD to my
> > > skillset, but it would have to be one hell of an opportunity for me
> > > (again,
> > > just my opinion) to completely forego all the stuff I've learned.
> > >
> > > Good luck no matter what you end up doing though!
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott Morris, CCIE4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
> > > JNCIE-M
> > > #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> > > CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> > > VP - Technical Training - IPexpert, Inc.
> > > IPexpert Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >
> > > A Cisco Learning Partner - We Accept Learning Credits!
> > >
> > > smorris@ipexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Telephone: +1.810.326.1444
> > > Fax: +1.810.454.0130
> > > http://www.ipexpert.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
Of
> > > Alan
> > > Chng
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2008 7:23 AM
> > > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Moving away from Cisco
> > >
> > > Fellow experts,
> > >
> > >
> > > Considering the amount of time and 'sacrifice' made to achieve
the
> > > CCIE and make our mark in the networking field, would anyone here
> > > contemplate on moving to a role supporting another vendor (e.g.
Alcatel,
> > > Tellabs, Ericsson) ??. I'm referring to a role which requires in-house
> > > training to learn the intricacies, proprietary protocols and CLI of
the
> > > vendor and be completely "isolated" from the Cisco world. I'm
discounting
> > > Juniper since I tend to see them in the same market segment.
> > >
> > > Would anyone do it? And if so, what would be the factor? Better
> > > opportunity?
> > > Less competition? Another challenge?
> > >
> > > I find the switchover challenging as I believe a lot of us started the
> > > CCIE
> > > journey more as a hobby and through the course of the time and
developed a
> > > familiarity to the IOS, not to mention the resources, information,
> > > forums/communities that are widely available today.
> > >
> > >
> > > Any opinions will be much appreciated
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Alan
> > > CCNP/IP/SP, R&S due in May
>
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