From: Gary Duncanson (garyduncanson@btinternet.com)
Date: Sat Oct 04 2008 - 10:13:39 ART
Seems like a thermonuclear event has happened here. I don't know the ins and
outs but I have to say Im surprised at the way this is being handled.
Paul it's your list but going public about your misgivings about all this
seems a little misguided and the personal stuff is uncalled for. Scott has
put a lot into the list over the years.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Morris" <swm@emanon.com>
To: <jimsbait@gmail.com>; "'Paul Borghese'" <pborghese@groupstudy.com>;
"'Cisco certification'" <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Cc: "'Brian McGahan'" <bmcgahan@internetworkexpert.com>; "'Joseph Brunner'"
<joe@affirmedsystems.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 1:35 PM
Subject: FW: CCDE Practical (Or other blah, blah, blah)
> Now there's an interesting summation of it all, and needlessly, one I did
> not expect from you Paul to be aired publicly.
>
> So let's review a few things. First, GS has always been portrayed as a
> public list. Second, as you note, there have been rules against
> advertising.
>
> Now, we can go back, likely through the archives, and find examples of
> what
> has been blatant advertising by folks over the years. Or at least the
> ones
> you have chosen to view in that fashion (and you'll never find one
> authored
> by me). Signatures had been permitted until a few made them long and
> unbearable.
>
> You then had this long and glorified announcement about how GS was
> accepting
> advertising by method of the footers on all of the PUBLIC messages which
> GS
> had. I know a number of vendors were interested in this method of
> "legally"
> advertising and giving you money for your operations, as we all believe
> it's
> a valuable asset.
>
> Amazingly enough, there's a tremendous lack of response when things don't
> appear to be going your way. The "advertising capability only seems to be
> allowed for YOUR OWN companies. So you therefore are creating an unfair
> atmosphere in what you laid out to be a "positive" thing along the way.
> Over the past few months, I have tried NUMEROUS times in order to make
> things work nicely in all fair practice applications of the advertising
> rules that you have laid out.
>
> I also complied with removing th URLs, and subsequent TinyURLs from my
> signature. Now, granted, I replaced them with quippish notes, but they
> weren't advertising. It has caused you to e-mail me, and get as far as
> letting me know you had no demographic information. So I voluteered to
> help
> assess this. Then you said you had to talk with one of the owners of the
> company as I may not have any monetary authority. I made that happen.
> What's the next response? To be ignored.
>
> There weren't any silly demands other than to have a fair conversation
> about
> making GS a place for fair advertising and fair compensation for you.
> Now,
> if you view it as a little kid attitude, I'm sorry about that. GS is
> indeed
> private property, although portraying as a public list automatically
> changes
> rules (much like a shopping mall's physical property is "private" but
> access
> is "public").
>
> "Spoiled little kid attitude", "repugnant", and other adjectives are
> actually ones I would have used, although I was nice enough not to decide
> to
> publicly air them to folks who (IMHO) did not need to be involved in the
> conversation.
>
> Now, interstingly enough, I did not see this message originally, which
> means
> I have likely been removed from the GS list without any message
> announcement. That's a very mature way to end the conversation. Yes,
> it's
> your sandbox. However, YOU set up all the rules, which I (and I'm not the
> only vendor person who has) have been TRYING to comply with, and get in on
> in order to get you compensation for the advertising, yet it's magically
> not
> possible.
>
> In fact, the last message I sent you last night showed a signature that
> was
> asking for your approval as to whether it was in-line with your exact
> rules/requests or not. My "silly demand" was simply a note of removing
> the
> obstacle to ongoing discussions so that again, we could comply with the
> nice
> long e-mail that YOU sent to the list about it "accepting advertising"
> which
> it clearly is not. That's not a demand, it's meeting another obstacle or
> rule on your side in order to move to that next level of figuring out what
> the next obstacle is for a company not owned by Paul Borghese to be able
> to
> follow the "advertising" rules set forth months ago.
>
> So, while I'm sure this is somehow entirely my fault and due to the
> simple,
> yet immature attitude that I must have towards everything in life... I'm
> amazingly appalled at the method in which this was displayed to the
> public,
> and the reaction that you took with it. It is what it is. While I expect
> no special treatment, I do expect fair and professional treatment. Way to
> go Paul.
>
> Have you ever wondered why some of the heavy posters of yester-year are no
> longer around on the list? I can very confidently say it's not because of
> me. ;)
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
> Senior CCIE Instructor
>
> smorris@internetworkexpert.com
>
>
>
> Knowledge is power.
> Power corrupts.
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Borghese" <pborghese@groupstudy.com>
> To: "'Jimmy Palmer'" <jimsbait@gmail.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2008 1:46 AM
> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical
>
>
>> Wow, that sums it up nicely. Dealing with Scott Morris is like dealing
>> with
>> a little snitty third grader.
>>
>> For ten years now GroupStudy has had in existence a rule with which every
>> vendor has happily agreed to comply.
>>
>> Scott comes along and blatantly disregards numerous requests I have made
>> asking him to comply with the same rules as everyone else.
>>
>> So I am really between a rock and a hard place. For ten years vendors
>> have
>> been complying. Scott believes he is above the rules and flat out
>> disregards numerous requests to stop. My inbox is filling with
>> complaints
>> from vendors who have been happily complying with the rules asking why
>> Scott
>> is getting "special" treatment.
>>
>> I am dismayed by his spoiled little kid attitude. I thought he was
>> better
>> then this. GroupStudy is private property, yet Scott Morris seems to
>> think
>> he is above the wishes of the owner. Frankly his behavior on the list is
>> repugnant. If you are using someone's property, you should simply
>> respect
>> the wishes of the owner.
>>
>> His last e-mail to me was riddled with silly demands in exchange for his
>> cooperation with a simple request virtually every other person on the
>> list
>> follows without issue. Needless to say, I will not be complying with the
>> demands.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Jimmy Palmer
>> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 3:54 PM
>> To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Scott Morris'; 'Tony Varriale';
>> ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical
>>
>> Joe I appreciate your feedback but you are missing the point. Here is
>> what
>
>> I
>> am referring to:
>>
>> " There are a few postings on our blog site about it. (I'd post a link,
>> but
>> no sense irritating Paul today)"
>>
>> Mate take a look at that statement. Also if you look at how Scott is
>> posting
>> his signature:
>>
>> Online Community: The party waiting to happen.
>> CCIE Blog: Ahhhh... But to know it.
>>
>> He's doing all of the above to screw with the list owner and I think that
>> is
>> crap. He needs to knock this kind of thing off as he's just being an ass.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Joseph Brunner
>> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:04 PM
>> To: 'Jacob Armitage'; 'Scott Morris'; 'Tony Varriale';
>> ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical
>>
>> So you're saying Scott and the other IE staff should post here for free
>> just
>> because you are some how "offended" by their signatures???
>>
>> They are trading time (their own time) for answering people's
>> questions...
>> Therefore they are EARNING interest in their valuable training classes &
>> materials.
>>
>> I don't see you answering many people's questions Jacob...
>>
>>
>> Joseph Brunner
>> President
>> Affirmed Systems LLC
>> CCIE #19366, CCDP, MCSE 2003
>> Expert IT consulting services to enterprise clients in NYC, Boston and
>> San
>> Francisco Bay area.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Jacob Armitage
>> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 2:06 PM
>> To: 'Scott Morris'; 'Tony Varriale'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical
>>
>> Listen buddy you and all of the other vendors post on here because it
>> makes
>> you money! So don't try and come off as some good Samaritan. You are not!
>> Why don't ALL the vendors stop with the crazy signatures? In fact, no
>> more
>> links to vendor websites in signatures. How about that? How helpful would
>> you be then? You use every post to the list as an advertisement for your
>> products and services with your signature. You do it along with every
>> other
>> vendor. You use this list to make money and become rich. Then you have
>> the
>> audacity to f* over the list owner and not play by his rules. You should
>> be
>> ashamed of yourself.
>>
>> p.s. I had you as my ASE instructor. I thought you were an okay guy in
>> class, but my opinion of you has now completely changed.
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Scott Morris
>> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 5:17 AM
>> To: jimsbait@gmail.com; 'Tony Varriale'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical
>>
>> An interesting message for the first time... Welcome to the list, and I
>> hope you can come to make some wonderful contributions as well that are
>> actually worth reading.
>>
>> While I'm sure you are aware of the addage that "there are two sides to
>> every story", it seems that you have made a fairly bold opinion without
>> knowing any of the sides to a story. So without bothering to share
>> things
>> that don't have much of a need to be shared here at this point in time,
>> I'll
>> share with you another addage for your perusal... "it's often better to
>> keep your mouth shut and have people think you aren't very bright than to
>> open it and prove them right".
>>
>> Take it as you will. Since you already have a pre-formed opinion anyway,
>> I'm sure the application will be the worst possible anyway! But if you
>> actually make it a point to know me you will find that I am not at all
>> arrogant. Keep in mind that terms like "disrespectful" or "smartass"
>> very
>> often get shaded depending on what "side" of a discussion you are on or
>> how
>> much knowledge of the details you do or do not have. So I'll grant you
>> the
>> benefit of the doubt that you don't know enough to truly form a
>> knowledgable
>> opinion in this matter.
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jimmy Palmer [mailto:jimsbait@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 4:39 PM
>> To: 'Scott Morris'; 'Tony Varriale'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical
>>
>> Glad to hear it was interesting.
>>
>> If posting a link would irritate Paul, why would you even mention it? You
>> are an arrogant SOB and completely disrespectful. You need to step down
>> off
>> your high horse and join the rest of us Mr. CCIE4. Why do you do that
>> crap
>> in your signature as well? Come on mate! I sincerely hope Paul bans you.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Scott Morris
>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 12:45 PM
>> To: 'Tony Varriale'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: RE: CCDE Practical
>>
>> It was a long day. ;) And a very interesting exam. There are a few
>> postings on our blog site about it. (I'd post a link, but no sense
>> irritating Paul today)
>>
>> Nobody knows about "passing" or not yet, as it was a beta. Sometime in
>> 6+
>> weeks, we'll find out just how horribly....er... Well we actually did.
>>
>> Brian M. will be happy as long as he gets one more point than I do!
>> (smirk)
>>
>>
>> Scott Morris, CCIE4 #4713, JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>> CCSI/JNCI-M/JNCI-ER
>> Senior CCIE Instructor
>>
>> smorris@internetworkexpert.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>> Online Community: The party waiting to happen.
>> CCIE Blog: Ahhhh... But to know it.
>>
>> Knowledge is power.
>> Power corrupts.
>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>> Tony
>> Varriale
>> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:18 AM
>> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
>> Subject: CCDE Practical
>>
>> Ok guys, what went down yesterday? :)
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
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