RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking

This announcement really isn't news to some. 2 years ago when they had the
CCDE meeting (scott morris was actually sitting right behind me during it),
the cert team discussed this as a possibility and asked for feedback. we all
knew in that room it was coming. Since then, the written / practical have
came out and in the partner space the TSS program came to be. I did the TSS
in Mars and IPS and the process was quite simular however you are supposed to
be mentored by a Cisco SE. the reasons that Russ White et. al. gave for the
CCDE and architect to me seem a lot more valid than say other things such as
the creation of CCIE wireless. the idea is not to make the CCIE worth less
but rather help engineers with a path to grow and expand their knowledge to
not just the command line picture but rather to the big one - how do I design
it to work all together and how can I adapt my designs to meet business
critical needs. lastly, maybe this is cisco giving us the "real world" test
that people have been complaining that the CCIE is not for years.

Travis

> From: luan_at_netcraftsmen.net
> To: jastorino_at_ipexpert.com
> CC: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:52:07 -0400
>
> Yeah, we all just have to go out and get that promotion again...
> And it's not like Wayne said he would pay you 20% less since you are now
> only 2nd highest level :)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of Joe
> Astorino
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:44 PM
> To: 'Joe Astorino'; smorris_at_ine.com
> Cc: 'Gary Duncanson'; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
> With that being said, I just sort of took in your first sentence. I guess
> it does not mean that I or any other CCIEs out there have lost any
> knowledge, so from that perspective I guess nothing has changed.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Astorino
> CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>
>
> From: Joe Astorino [mailto:jastorino_at_ipexpert.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:39 PM
> To: smorris_at_ine.com
> Cc: 'Gary Duncanson'; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
>
>
> I absolutely agree with a lot of what you said Scott. For instance, I
> absolutely appreciate how much I do not know. I absolutely agree that we
> should always be learning more, and I'm all for that. I guess the thing
> that is sort of eating me is that when I signed up for CCIE part of the
> reason was gaining the knowledge. Part of the reason was the
classification
> of being in a group with the best. Now we are being told that we are no
> longer the best. Cisco specifically says in the announcement that it is
> higher than the CCIE. So I guess for me, it kind of feels like a demotion
> to go from the highest level to the 2nd highest level.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Astorino
> CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>
>
> From: Scott Morris [mailto:smorris_at_ine.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:30 PM
> To: Joe Astorino
> Cc: 'Gary Duncanson'; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
>
>
> Does it make you any less of an expert?
>
> One of the interesting things that the CCIE taught me (each of them
> actually), is that there's a lot of stuff I don't know. Sometimes the
> impact was more immediate than others (e.g. if I happened to have failed!)
> but either way, you should begin to appreciate the scope of what you know
> and realize how much out there that you don't know.
>
> With that perspective in mind, what's wrong with entertaining the idea that
> the CCIE may or may not be the top of the pile? As long as the standards
> are kept high, then I think it's an interesting evolution. You should
> already be asking yourself 'What's next?'.
>
> So whether it's multiple CCIEs... Whether it's other vendor
> certifications... Whether it's a design expert... Whether it's this new
> architect. We now have more possibilities than we did before.
>
> Shouldn't our goal be to be the coolest folks on the planet? Hopefully the
> standards are high enough that uncool people don't get to be cool (lack of
a
> better phrase!) but it's merely a path available! Should be fun!
>
> Nobody called you an Associate Expert though. Don't feel bad. Now when
> Cisco first came out with the career certs, I fully understand the
> demotion... I had passed a test called the Cisco Design Specialist. And
> was promised a T-shirt and cert. About 5-6 months later, I got a letter
> saying I was now a Cisco Certified Design Associate. Now, I don't know
> about you, but in my mind, an Associate was not nearly as cool as a
> Specialist. :) THAT was a change. The CCIE is not being removed,
replaced
> or otherwise renamed and demoted. We merely have another level added to
> demonstrate knowledge and qualifications above and beyond.
>
> My two cents.
>
>
>
>
>
> Scott Morris, CCIEx4 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>
> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>
> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>
> evil_at_ine.com
>
>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>
> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>
> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>
> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>
>
>
> Knowledge is power.
>
> Power corrupts.
>
> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>
>
> Joe Astorino wrote:
>
> Yeah really...I don't want to sound too upset here, but I feel like I just
> got kicked in the balls. How do the rest of you CCIEs out there feel about
> this announcement, since in my opinion we have all essentially been
demoted?
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Astorino
> CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Duncanson [mailto:gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:38 PM
> To: Joe Astorino
> Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
> I give up too. I'm just way too busy working as a Network Designer to keep
> up with all that stuff!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Joe Astorino" <mailto:jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>
> <jastorino_at_ipexpert.com>
> To: "'Mike Kraus (mikraus)'" <mailto:mikraus_at_cisco.com>
> <mikraus_at_cisco.com>; <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 5:28 PM
> Subject: RE: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
>
>
>
> I give up...
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Astorino
> CCIE #24347 (R&S)
> Sr. Support Engineer - IPexpert, Inc.
> URL: http://www.IPexpert.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> Mike
> Kraus (mikraus)
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 11:16 AM
> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> Subject: Cisco Raises the Bar with Highest-Level IT Networking
> Certification: Cisco Certified Architect
>
> http://newsroom.cisco.com/dlls/2009/prod_062909.html
>
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Received on Mon Jun 29 2009 - 11:56:00 ART