Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

Thanks Wayne,

I'm not well versed on the ins and outs of your company internals. But I did
invest in IPexpert way back because Scott taught there and I still find the
WB useful.

Regards
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wayne Lawson" <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com>
To: "Gary Duncanson" <gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com>
Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry

>I was referring to what our VP has done - taken his previos company -
>"Intense School" to 11 Million in sales.
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
> Founder, President & CEO:
> - IPexpert, Inc.
> - Proctor Labs, Inc.
> - Platinum Solutions Group, LLC.
> Mailto: wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
> Mobile: +1.810.334.1564
>
> :: Message sent from iPhone.
>
> On Jul 11, 2009, at 9:40 AM, Gary Duncanson <gary.duncanson_at_googlemail.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> What does Intense to 11 + MM mean please?
>> I'm still using IPexpert v 9.0 from time to time. The workbook is very
>> useful. I should hit some mocks soon.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Gary
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Lawson"
>> <groupstudy_at_ipexpert.com
>> >
>> To: "Darby Weaver" <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>
>> Cc: "Dark Fiber" <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>; "Cisco certification"
>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>> >
>> Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 2:30 PM
>> Subject: Re: The State of the CCIE Training Industry
>>
>>
>>> You guys are crazy if you think Brian Dennis has been "tucked away"
>>> for the past 8 months working on CCNP material....their (INE) CCIE
>>> material (like ours) is their "bread and butter" - and their products
>>> aren't even fully updated yet (as ours aren't). I highly doubt they
>>> would have someone with his talent NOT answering email, NOT posting on
>>> his blog, NOT working on their CCIE products but instead - working on
>>> a CCNP boot camp product...come on people - think logically.
>>>
>>> Also, regarding us (IPexpert) - we have been moving forward, fullspeed
>>> ahead. We've got a great jumpstart with all of our new hardware
>>> implemented (for CCIE Security and Voice), we've been working on - and
>>> releasing our Workbooks, VOD / Audio, Course Content, have already
>>> released a 4.0 R&S product and more...we've invested in, and hired, an
>>> experienced VP (former Intense School CEO) who has 20+ years in the
>>> boot camp / IT industry - he took Intense to 11+ MM in sales from
>>> startup. We've already completed CCNA, CCNA, CISSP, CEH, Forensics and
>>> MCITP course content - and have the instructors on board to teach the
>>> classes (new website to launch in 2 weeks). So, the rumors that Cisco
>>> 360 is hurting us is absolutely absurd. In fact, we'll flourish now
>>> that some of our competitors are now locked in to selling the same 360
>>> material - and we can continue to design ours so it's more thorough,
>>> can be taken to market quicker and more cost-effective (it will always
>>> be more proven and cost-effective regardless of how Cisco decides to
>>> sell it).
>>>
>>> Gesh....this is one thing about the "awesome Groupstudy community" -
>>> half of the posts are rumors and flat out BS...I guess now that MJ
>>> died people need a new source of rumors! ;-)
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Wayne A. Lawson II - CCIE #5244
>>> Founder, President & CEO:
>>> - IPexpert, Inc.
>>> - Proctor Labs, Inc.
>>> - Platinum Solutions Group, LLC.
>>> Mailto: wlawson_at_ipexpert.com
>>> Mobile: +1.810.334.1564
>>>
>>> :: Message sent from iPhone.
>>>
>>> On Jul 11, 2009, at 9:02 AM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> CCNP material?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Dark Fiber <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I think the rumors of Brian Dennis and INE were GREATLY
>>>>> exaggerated...
>>>>>
>>>>> It would seem because of his post on their blog yesterday that he
>>>>> just has
>>>>> been tucked away working on material...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 11, 2009 at 2:59 AM, Darby Weaver <ccie.weaver_at_gmail.com
>>>>> >wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well here I go again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I just came back from Cisco Live 2009. Had a great time attended
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> techtorials and breakout technical sessions. Met some awesome
>>>>>> people.
>>>>>> Lots
>>>>>> of energy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the State of the CCIE Union.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears there is not enough to go around and pools of endless
>>>>>> CCIE
>>>>>> Candidates are drying up (at least of the paying variety).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems that the Cisco CCIE 360 Program was designed to retain the
>>>>>> value
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the program and it has its merits. However a lot of very respected
>>>>>> trainers
>>>>>> are joining the program for one or more reasons:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. It is better (eye of the beholder).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. It allows the trainers to accept Cisco Learning Credits (in a
>>>>>> very very
>>>>>> tough market).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. It is going to allow for a much improved product.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Umm... That's a multiple choice question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So if a lot of trainers are being "corraled" by Cisco into joining
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> program as at least some have suggested (as in join us or die...
>>>>>> well more
>>>>>> like join us or decertify) isn't this a little odd way to bring
>>>>>> some of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> best trainers in the industry into the Cisco CCIE 360 Program?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think so, but hey I'm not a trainer nor a CCIE as of yet and so
>>>>>> it's not
>>>>>> really my concern.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My concern is innovative and quality products.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From what I gather I'm not sure this is going to happen from the
>>>>>> Cisco
>>>>>> CCIE
>>>>>> 360 Program immediately or possibly anytime soon despite having
>>>>>> some 30
>>>>>> highly experienced CCIE Trainers (some of whom are content
>>>>>> developers).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a mean rumor going around that are only two main games left
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> town: Cisco CCIE 360 Program and IPExpert. And IPExpert is
>>>>>> diversifying
>>>>>> into other certifications...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What? Only 2!!! What about InternetworkExpert?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Apparently some think InternetworkExpert may be in dire straights
>>>>>> (Truth
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> Dare) and since Brian Dennis may no longer be at the head of the
>>>>>> table
>>>>>> (another rumor from an informed source) then InternetworkExpert as
>>>>>> we know
>>>>>> it may not exist much longer and may not hold a top spot either for
>>>>>> long.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In any event the CCIE Training is venue is bleeding badly. Very
>>>>>> badly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I saw a lot of stuff while in San Franscisco. I saw a little
>>>>>> hustle and
>>>>>> jive. I saw fear. I saw anger. I saw despair. And out of it all I
>>>>>> might
>>>>>> have seen a glint of opportunity but you'll have to shake me to see
>>>>>> where
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> saw that aspect of the game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's the problem as I see it:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. The economy. Well not quite true since in times likes these
>>>>>> trainers
>>>>>> and education in general are safe bets... unless...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Every trainer sells and makes all their "intellectual property"
>>>>>> full
>>>>>> available "electronically.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Ouch! I said it. Piracy and Sharing is about to be the death
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> program. Classes are still a go, but electronic revenues are
>>>>>> getting hit
>>>>>> hard apparently and the biggest retailers are getting hit the
>>>>>> hardest
>>>>>> (like
>>>>>> say... InternetworkExpert for example).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. One CCIE Vendor/Trainer shared with me a very sad fact...
>>>>>> Exactly 4
>>>>>> sales of a product in exactly 4 months. That's it guys. It is now
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> bad
>>>>>> and LockLizard is not good enough to protect the family jewels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But... but... Darby... I'm from a poor country and I cannot afford a
>>>>>> workbook a video on demand, or anything else... Yep I hear these
>>>>>> all the
>>>>>> time. Ouch! Apparently you won't have to worry as soon there
>>>>>> won't be
>>>>>> anyone left producing them and you will have to rely on Cisco Press
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Cisco CCO for your training. The CCIE Vendors/Trainers may soon be
>>>>>> extinct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Golden Age of CCIE Training is almost waning entirely and may
>>>>>> soon be
>>>>>> gone in the advent of several things:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Mass media - electronic media.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. High download speeds - 30GB is downloadable quite quickly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Rapidshare and others are the death of this industry - sorry it
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Sell once and a team get together for a "Group-Buy" and Share
>>>>>> many -
>>>>>> Unless they are waiting to get it for F-R-E-E... (see an example
>>>>>> below).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5. Since everything "intellectually valuable" has been shared and
>>>>>> re-shared,
>>>>>> that leaves only classroom revenues and these dry up since many
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> either cheat the exam itself or refuse to buy or take classes when
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> stuff is readily available via video and instant download.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the guys who started the thing with Video on Demand may be among
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> first victims of their own success.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hell one copy sold to a country with no intellectual copyright law
>>>>>> or no
>>>>>> regard for it, means one copy sold to exactly 1 billion souls (well
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> quite - but you get the point - but you lose the buck!).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is an example taken this week from an underground forum:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Any one got the NMC BGP kindly share.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Please share it friends.
>>>>>> 3. yes men share it It is so important
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. Any update ??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 5. need this, please share if you have or locate! BGP for me!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 6. if many people are interested...we can buy it directly from
>>>>>> NMC....anyone
>>>>>> interested.....comes for $349...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7. JUST wait men , xxx offer them for free now. only contributors
>>>>>> can get
>>>>>> them now and they will available for all after 4 weeks. hope one
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> contributors can share them before the month
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 8. no problem, we can wait 4 weeks
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See how that works. NMC will sell 1 copy for those 100 who want
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> particular product and then it will sell no more.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Done!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And NMC/Cisco can protect it to their heart's content and it will
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> raped and pillaged within 24 hours or less of the sale. It's like
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So the era of our vendors supplying electronic copies of anything
>>>>>> just
>>>>>> died.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> R.I.P. July 11th 2009.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unless some of them are still making some sort of profit - which is
>>>>>> dwindling fast.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even Cisco Press is in trouble since most books are available for
>>>>>> free
>>>>>> mostly anywhere on the net.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The big question on the underground today is: Where's Narbik's 2.0
>>>>>> Workbook?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Only 1 Trainer's labs/products have survived this: That German
>>>>>> guy... who
>>>>>> trains in Denver.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Easy:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Paper and Watermark. If he used the red paper then he'd be even
>>>>>> one more
>>>>>> layer secure from this kind of thing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> However, he's pretty secure and his stuff is not everywhere. I
>>>>>> think he
>>>>>> only takes cash or wire transfer aka cash. But he's not worried
>>>>>> about his
>>>>>> stuff being pirated.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some vendor's stuff is literally everywhere and trying to stop
>>>>>> 30-40,000
>>>>>> determined techies is really tough for anyone or um... 20 times
>>>>>> those
>>>>>> numbers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey - Don't kill the messenger. I'm just telling you that with all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> E-CCIE available nowadays - class sizes are going to continue to
>>>>>> shrink
>>>>>> even
>>>>>> though demand is growing out of control.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is exponential.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The lab is changing right... now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's the only hope you guys have of maintaining your career - or at
>>>>>> least
>>>>>> your salary or profit margins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1 lab is worth $1000.00 per student or even $2,000.00 if it is not
>>>>>> available
>>>>>> for free.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What can I tell you that I've not already said?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This may be the last year you really have an opportunity to save the
>>>>>> full-time career as a CCIE Trainer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who knows?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just letting you know how fast your brains are leaking all over the
>>>>>> Internet. Pretty fast actually.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the time you've read this I can't tell you how many GB or even
>>>>>> TB have
>>>>>> been downloaded.... Can you say lost revenues?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Honestly I even heard some producers of materials willing to sell
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> stuff
>>>>>> for $20.00 a copy - imagine that - now if you pay $500 or $1000.00
>>>>>> for a
>>>>>> copy of a product and a vendor is in that tough a situation...
>>>>>> Think
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> it. and then there is the CCIE 5x selling his own workbooks for
>>>>>> $20-30.00
>>>>>> each on ebay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ouch!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is really getting bad now guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A bright light come October 18th. The troubleshooting section of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> lab.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You'd better change your ways and your strategies... use stone
>>>>>> carvings if
>>>>>> you have to. It's your work or its not your work anymore - you
>>>>>> choose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>>>
>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>
>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
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Received on Sat Jul 11 2009 - 16:26:54 ART