Re: cisco lab safe

****waits for someone to come in and spin this convo into how the OEQ arent
fair.

:)

On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Terry Vinson <consultant_at_tnclimited.com>wrote:

> When it's all said and done. We all know who makes CCIE's. A student with
> a desire to endure the marathon (gauntlet), and the instructor/instructors
> that make all the difference for them. NO amount of corporate positioning
> is going to change that. No amount of marketing is going to make someone
> internalize (and know) this amount of information in half the time it takes
> now. What works for some will not work for others. There is no cookie
> cutter program that will ever turn out the caliber of CCIE's that Narbik,
> IPexpert and INE have made separately to date.
>
> Diversity is strength in this business.
>
>
>
>
> Scott Morris wrote:
>
>> You weren't on the original distribution, or the writer of the direct
>> e-mail I was replying to... So I don't think so. ;)
>>
>> It's all good. Fun to watch.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>>
>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>
>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>
>> evil_at_ine.com
>>
>>
>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>
>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com
>>
>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>
>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>
>>
>> Knowledge is power.
>>
>> Power corrupts.
>>
>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Narbik Kocharians wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I am sorry Scott, who are you talking to? are you talking to me? Who is
>>> breaking NDA?
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 5:07 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> It's not only not "fair" (isn't all fair in love, war and marketing?)
>>>> but it's also not accurate. Some of us merely adhere to NDAs better
>>>> than others do, and don't attempt to rub noses in things.
>>>>
>>>> But it's all in the name of fun, right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider) #4713,
>>>>
>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>>>
>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>>>
>>>> evil_at_ine.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com <http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>>
>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>>>
>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Knowledge is power.
>>>>
>>>> Power corrupts.
>>>>
>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Dark Fiber wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I can't see that being fair to bring up right now... What does that
>>>>> tell people who want to get started today? Wait "X" amount of time
>>>>> because their is a change coming down the line? If there is a major
>>>>> change coming down the line why isn't this being told to us right now?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 7:03 PM, Brad Ellis <brad_at_ccbootcamp.com
>>>>> <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott is comparing a grey-market program to the Cisco authorized 360
>>>>> learning program. There are some major changes coming to the CCIE
>>>>> lab
>>>>> exam. The Cisco 360 Program already has the "inside scoop" on the
>>>>> changes coming down the pipe. The grey market folks don't have
>>>>> that. If
>>>>> you want to prepare for your lab exam properly, it's going to become
>>>>> more and more apparent that the 360 program is the way to go. (One
>>>>> of
>>>>> the big reasons why we joined the program!)
>>>>>
>>>>> This announcement is only one of many things to come. There will
>>>>> be more
>>>>> and more differentiators that keep making the Cisco 360 Learning
>>>>> Program
>>>>> increasingly advantageous as the best option for CCIE training
>>>>> over grey
>>>>> market competition.
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks,
>>>>> Brad Ellis
>>>>> CCIE#5796 (R&S / Security)
>>>>> CCSI# 30482
>>>>> CEO / President
>>>>> CCBOOTCAMP - Cisco Learning Solutions Partner (CLSP)
>>>>> Email: brad_at_ccbootcamp.com <mailto:brad_at_ccbootcamp.com>
>>>>> Toll Free: 877-654-2243
>>>>> International: +1-702-968-5100
>>>>> Skype: skype:ccbootcamp?call
>>>>> FAX: +1-702-446-8012
>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On
>>>>> Behalf Of
>>>>> Scott Morris
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 3:41 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> > To: armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Cc: darkfiber08_at_gmail.com <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>> dane.newman_at_gmail.com <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>;
>>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
>>>>>
>>>>> Excellent question on that. The CCIE Essentials, though, is exactly
>>>>> that from them, the workbooks + videos. So I was putting out the
>>>>> option. It simply happened to be the least expensive option from
>>>>> us.
>>>>>
>>>>> By the way, according to
>>>>> https://cisco.hosted.jivesoftware.com/docs/DOC-5857, I was
>>>>> incorrect on
>>>>> my math. You must take ALL FOUR (4 x 349 = $1,400) AND score at
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> least
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 80% on one of them. So their minimum investment just became $3,995
>>>>> +
>>>>> $1,400 = $5,395.
>>>>>
>>>>> Slice it however you want. It's marketing, and I most certainly
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> won't
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> fault anyone for that! As always, people are capable of making
>>>>> their
>>>>> own decisions on things! Just do the math.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not downplaying the program itself. I know too many of the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> involved and respect their capabilities all around. Not all vendors
>>>>> selling the 360 will be the same, however, which puts a kludge into
>>>>> things... but as long as you know what you're getting into, you are
>>>>> welcome to select whichever flavor of apple works best for you!
>>>>> Some
>>>>> may be more expensive than others despite the pretty sign next to
>>>>> them!
>>>>>
>>>>> ;)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service Provider)
>>>>> #4713,
>>>>>
>>>>> JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>>>>
>>>>> JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>>>>
>>>>> evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<
>>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>>>
>>>>> Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>>>>
>>>>> Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Knowledge is power.
>>>>>
>>>>> Power corrupts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> armylegionmedic_at_aol.com <mailto:armylegionmedic_at_aol.com> wrote:
>>>>> > I mean, maybe this is just me, but the only price that was cheap
>>>>> > enough to beat Cisco's deal was a CoD and Workkooks, so we arent
>>>>> > really comparing Apples to Apples are we? If we were to look
>>>>> apples to
>>>>> > apples or maybe like a Granny Smith vs. Mt. Washington Apple, I
>>>>> think
>>>>> > that the Cisco 360 offer is looking pretty tempting. The only part
>>>>> > that I would have to really say competes is the free re-sits.
>>>>> This is
>>>>> > all IMO, but maybe I am misreading something.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: Dark Fiber <darkfiber08_at_gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:darkfiber08_at_gmail.com>>
>>>>> > To: Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>>
>>>>> > Cc: Dane Newman <dane.newman_at_gmail.com
>>>>> <mailto:dane.newman_at_gmail.com>>; Cisco certification
>>>>> > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
>>>>> > Sent: Tue, Sep 15, 2009 3:25 pm
>>>>> > Subject: Re: cisco lab safe
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If I read that right $3500 and the price of a mock lab might be
>>>>> worth
>>>>> it for
>>>>> > a $1400 lab voucher if you fail. Anyone else get the same or did I
>>>>> misread
>>>>> > it?
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Scott Morris <smorris_at_ine.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> > <mailto:smorris_at_ine.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > > Ok.... So let's do some math on this...
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > CIERS1 = $3,995
>>>>> > > CIERS2 = $4,500
>>>>> > > Essentials = $4,550
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Plus an Assessment lab (minimum 1, possibly more) = $349
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > So at a BARE MINIMUM you are looking at $3,995 + $349 = $4,345
>>>>> that
>>>>> you
>>>>> > > have to spend in order to get that.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > For INE's pricing, a bootcamp costs $2,995 (not including any
>>>>> > > discounts). The mock lab workshop is $3,995 again not counting
>>>>> > > discounts. The lab workbook set + CoD bundle = $825 + 1,695 or
>>>>> $2,520
>>>>> > > (not including any discounts). A mock lab (minimum 1, possibly
>>>>> more) =
>>>>> > > $129.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > So on price point alone, you have a minimum comparable
>>>>> spending (not
>>>>> > > including discounts) of $2,649. That's a grand difference
>>>>> there of
>>>>> > > $1,696, so you can spring for another lab, not need
>>>>> pre-qualification
>>>>> > > AND save an extra $296 to use towards your
>>>>> airfare/hotel/food/whatever....
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Oh yeah, and you don't get re-sits in the 360 program, you can
>>>>> attend
>>>>> > > our classes as many times as you'd like to and whenever you'd
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> like
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> to.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > So I'm really thinking that this kind of promotion alone is not
>>>>> going to
>>>>> > > swing someone one way or the other, at least unless they don't
>>>>> do
>>>>> math.
>>>>> > > But I'm sure if you work with our sales department, we would
>>>>> be more
>>>>> > > than happy to charge you more money and simply spring for a lab
>>>>> attempt
>>>>> > > for you based on certain criteria and select vendors only.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > If you have any questions on this, feel free to contact me
>>>>> offline,
>>>>> I'd
>>>>> > > be more than happy to cover options with you. I don't see a
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> point
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>> > > dragging this on and on through a technical list (e.g.
>>>>> non-marketing
>>>>> list).
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > *Scott Morris*, CCIE/x4/ (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/Service
>>>>> Provider)
>>>>> #4713,
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > JNCIE-M #153, JNCIS-ER, CISSP, et al.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > JNCI-M, JNCI-ER
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > evil_at_ine.com <mailto:evil_at_ine.com>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> > > >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > http://www.InternetworkExpert.com<
>>>>> http://www.internetworkexpert.com/>
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Toll Free: 877-224-8987
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Outside US: 775-826-4344
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Knowledge is power.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Power corrupts.
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Study hard and be Eeeeviiiil......
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > >
>>>>> > > Dane Newman wrote:
>>>>> > > > I got the following email below from cisco. All I can say
>>>>> is imo
>>>>> this
>>>>> > > will
>>>>> > > > make it harder on 3rd party vendors sadly that do offer
>>>>> quality
>>>>> training.
>>>>> > > > The chance to retake the lab for free is worth its weight in
>>>>> gold
>>>>> for all
>>>>> > > > the stress relief it can bring.
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > Dane
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe Promotion: Protect Your Training Investment
>>>>> > > > Learning_at_Cisco is pleased to introduce the Cisco Lab Safe
>>>>> promotion. The
>>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion allows qualifying Cisco. 360 Learning
>>>>> Program
>>>>> > > for
>>>>> > > > CCIE. Routing & Switching students who don't pass their
>>>>> first CCIE
>>>>> lab
>>>>> > > exam
>>>>> > > > attempt, to retake the CCIE lab exam (a $1,400 US Value) at no
>>>>> additional
>>>>> > > > cost.
>>>>> > > > The Cisco 360 Learning Program for R&S guides engineers who
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> three to
>>>>> > > > five years of networking experience through an effective,
>>>>> job-relevant,
>>>>> > > and
>>>>> > > > proven program to build expert-level skills and to prepare
>>>>> for the
>>>>> > > rigorous
>>>>> > > > Cisco CCIE R&S certification exams. Together, the Cisco 360
>>>>> Learning
>>>>> > > > Program for CCIE R&S and the Cisco Lab Safe promotion provide
>>>>> added
>>>>> > > > assurance in the quality and value of your training
>>>>> investment.
>>>>> > > > How the Cisco Lab Safe Promotion Works:
>>>>> > > > Students must meet the following criteria in order to be
>>>>> eligible
>>>>> for the
>>>>> > > > Cisco Lab Safe promotion:
>>>>> > > > A recommendation from their instructor
>>>>> > > > Completed the Cisco 360 Learning Program for CCIE R&S
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Essentials
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Package
>>>>> > > or
>>>>> > > > a CIERS instructor-led workshop
>>>>> > > > Scored 80% or better on one of the CIERS 1-4 performance
>>>>> assessments
>>>>> > > > Only select Authorized Cisco Learning Partners offer the
>>>>> Cisco 360
>>>>> > > Learning
>>>>> > > > Program curriculum and Cisco Lab Safe promotion.
>>>>> > > > Find out more about Cisco Lab Safe promotion and the official
>>>>> terms and
>>>>> > > > conditions on the Cisco Learning Network.
>>>>> > > >
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Received on Tue Sep 15 2009 - 20:45:05 ART