Re: CCIE R and S ver 4

Agreed Terry!

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Terry Vinson <consultant_at_tnclimited.com>wrote:

> Having four sons, two under the age of 5 I know what you mean. But my
> point is how many of us just take the test hoping to get lucky (needing it
> to be over). How many ignore the "signs" of not being ready and test
> anyway, and then blame the test. I've taken the test (v3) twice, and both
> times deep down I knew I wasn't ready. Last time Narbik even told me I
> wasn't ready, but I had already scheduled and couldn't back out. But that
> didn't stop me from initially feeling that the OEQ's were unfair and a crap
> shoot.
>
> Now with the troubleshooting we have to really know the technologies. The
> old exam was centered around configuration, the new test is centered more
> around consulting. This makes it harder to "luck" into a number.
>
> I would love to see the open ended questions go, but they haven't yet. So
> the only option is to assess, adapt and overcome (or give up <-- not an
> option).
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Warmest Regards,
> Terry
>
>
> Gary Duncanson wrote:
>
>> The problem Terry is time. I have been taking baby steps for 2.5 years now
>> which almost coincides with the age of our son. Lack of daily study time has
>> necessitated a patient approach. It works for me but a lot of people are
>> put off with this because it's so time consuming. As for jumping out the
>> window, I think lots of us feel like that from time to time especially with
>> kids hanging off you while you do some more monotonous stuff of IPv6. It's
>> little wonder people try to find ways to ramp up their training just get it
>> all over with (if possible).
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terry Vinson" <
>> consultant_at_tnclimited.com>
>> To: "groupstudy" <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 01, 2009 2:21 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: CCIE R and S ver 4
>>
>>
>> Just about every question I've ever missed while taking a mock lab or
>>> working with a workbook, I've been able to trace down to a single lack of
>>> understanding (or a misunderstanding) of a fundamental topic, or that topics
>>> impact on another protocol etc. When I took Narbik's bootcamp last year
>>> that was the one thing that he worked hardest at driving home. It's
>>> something he seemed very passionate about. Most of the guys I study with
>>> spend tons of time memorizing or speed drilling entering commands that they
>>> don't really stop to think about. The test is timed so they think they have
>>> to shove stuff into the CLI at the speed of light. Most have been taught to
>>> look for key words or catch phrases which mean to do x or y config, rather
>>> than look at things and reason things out.
>>>
>>> I personally wanted to leap into the multi-protocol labs as fast as
>>> possible. I mean how many times can you do frame relay labs (or rip, or
>>> ospf, or bgp) before you want to leap out a window? But honestly how many
>>> of us really take the time to look at all aspects of a given lab in a
>>> critical fashion, an analytical or a forensic fashion. Anthony Sequeira
>>> always says to take baby steps. Narbik says examine the technology down to
>>> the individual hairs. This kind of preparation takes discipline, more than
>>> most people have.
>>>
>>> I think the point is clear. Foundation, Foundation, Foundation.
>>>
>>> I mean if you understand OSPF. Really understand it, how it works, why
>>> it works. What question can someone ask you about OSPF that you won't be
>>> able to answer? If you spent 90% of your time memorizing OSPF commands and
>>> working on reflex, then analytical questions will be brain busters.
>>>
>>> My dad always said it would take only a few minutes to teach a man how to
>>> drive a nail into a piece of wood, but it could take a lifetime for that man
>>> to learn where to drive that nail to get the right results.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Johnny B CCIE wrote:
>>>
>>>> Narbik,
>>>>
>>>> Aren't people teaching the protocols now? Why aren't people passing
>>>> yet? It should not matter if the test changes or not in this case. We
>>>> are seeing something strange here. People have been taught the
>>>> technologies or we like to think so and no one is passing. Are not
>>>> enough people taking the test? Or are 90% of the technologies no
>>>> longer sufficient to pass this exam? Do you have any of your students
>>>> scheduled to take this lab Mister Narbik?
>>>>
>>>> AtlantaCCIE,
>>>>
>>>> Are all of these people monkeys who are failing the lab? Or are all of
>>>> them poorly prepared and simply do not know the technologies? When
>>>> will someone who is not a monkey pass?
>>>>
>>>> I actually read somewhere that they were teaching monkeys to erase the
>>>> pod and re-write the config but maybe they copied and pasted too. Has
>>>> anyone ever seen a monkey taking the lab when they were taking the
>>>> lab? ;)
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> But Johnny,
>>>>>
>>>>> That way you will be teaching around the test, and this is a big
>>>>> problem. If
>>>>> you teach the protocol, and i mean seriously teach 90 percent of each
>>>>> protocol, your students will pass.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> If you are smart you take the lab several times before you are an
>>>>>> instructor. ;)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alexei,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had to or else my number would have expired. I think as an
>>>>>>> instructor
>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>> you keep retaking the lab or even the written, it could raise flags.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 1:18 PM, Jonny English
>>>>>>> <redkidneybeans_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> it means they failed the last attempt so they had to take it again
>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>> they
>>>>>>>> want to pass
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:17 AM, Johnny B CCIE <jbccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What does this say for people who take the lab more than once?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "You gotta have balls to retake a lab.."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 12:15 PM, Atlanta CCIE
>>>>>>>>> <atlantaccie_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You gotta have balls to retake a lab.. Question is what IF you
>>>>>>>>>> fail?
>>>>>>>>>> Will
>>>>>>>>>> that mean now you are NOT a ccie? LOL
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Oct 31, 2009 at 11:21 AM, <sheherezada_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I suppose there is no rule for re-taking the lab once you have
>>>>>>>>>>> passed
>>>>>>>>>>> it because it does not serve any practical purpose. I am afraid
>>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>>> if one would do that, it would only catch Cisco's attention for
>>>>>>>>>>> fraud
>>>>>>>>>>> or something nasty. You can not just walk away and say "I just
>>>>>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>>>>>> to see your new lab".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Of course, I know that you guys were joking, but still...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Mihai
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 31, 2009, Alexei Monastyrnyi
>>>>>>>>>>> <alexeim73_at_gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> one way to find out is to try :-) someone who has got a CCIE RS
>>>>>>>>>>>> done
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> recently got recertified by RS written can just jump into his/her
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> "schedule
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a lab" page and try scheduling one. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I remember Narbik said he passed RS written exam some time ago.
>>>>>>>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> "not possible to retake a lab" is kinda odd, it is possible to
>>>>>>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> written as many times as individual wants to (with a five-day
>>>>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> between
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> unsuccessful attempts or 180-day one if successful) :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott Morris wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> While I technically haven't tried, I don't think it's possible
>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> retake
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> a lab you have already passed unless you do one of the beta
>>>>>>>>>>>> labs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Alexei Monastyrnyi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Technically, what would stop you from scheduling a lab after
>>>>>>>>>>>> passing a
>>>>>>>>>>>> written exam, even though the written one was for
>>>>>>>>>>>> recertification
>>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>> you already got your number? I believe nothing. It would look
>>>>>>>>>>>> odd
>>>>>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>>>>>> still being a feasible act. :-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ospfv2 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> can they do that without first let their ccie expired ? and lose
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> old number ?
>>>>>>>>>>>> i dont think so
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10/30/09, hopalong <ccieangel2_at_googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Scott, Brian, Brad, Andrew Bruce.....can't one of you guys sit a
>>>>>>>>>>>> lab
>>>>>>>>>>>> for us
>>>>>>>>>>>> and tell us that all is actually OK in CCIE land?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> CCIE# 17xxx (R&S/SP)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Narbik Kocharians
>>>>> CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>>>> www.MicronicsTraining.com
>>>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>>>> Training And Remote Racks available
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>> Subscription information may be found at:
>>> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>>>
>>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

-- 
CCIE# 17xxx (R&S/SP)
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net