RE: OT: CCIE != PhD

Agreed with Narbaik

> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 21:43:42 -0800
> Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> From: narbikk_at_gmail.com
> To: engrenny_at_hotmail.com
> CC: don.rajaratne_at_gmail.com; aaron1_at_gvtc.com; negron.paul_at_gmail.com;
pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com; niedentj_at_hotmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>
> Paul and Aaron,
>
> I am totally with you both.
>
> People are doing it the wrong way, getting CCIE or a degree should NOT
> affect your family the wrong way, you should NOT take away from your family
> just to do a lab or read an article. If this is you, YOU ARE DOING IT
WRONG.
>
> If you study an hour or two a day, you will get there without any headache
> or heartache. The problem with most of us is that we want it TODAY, we
> don't have any patience, some of us think that life is going to end
> tomorrow, and if we don't get it today, the certification is not going to
> be the same.
>
> Cisco has been there for a long time and they will be there for years to
> come, so take your time and study couple of hours a day and you will get
> there when you are totally ready.
>
> I have 4 kids, and i used to LOVE sports, but once i decided to get my
> CCIE, the only thing that suffered was the time i was spending in Gym and
> NOT when i was with my family.
>
> On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 9:27 PM, OLUSEGUN DADA <engrenny_at_hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > No matter how understanding she is, there is always going to be a
> > different because a woman will always be a woman
> >
> > Regards
> > Dada Olusegun
> > CCIE#32395, CEH, JNCIS
> >
> > Sent from my BlackBerry. Smartphone, from Etisalat.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Don Rajaratne <don.rajaratne_at_gmail.com>
> > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 04:48:54
> > To: <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>; <negron.paul_at_gmail.com>; <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>; <
> > niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> >
> > As long as if you have an understanding wife, that's all it matters.
> >
> > Don.
> > Sent from my BlackBerry.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: "Aaron" <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>
> > Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
> > Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2012 22:38:03
> > To: 'Paul Negron'<negron.paul_at_gmail.com>; 'Radioactive Frog'<
> > pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>; 'Travis Niedens'<niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > Reply-To: "Aaron" <aaron1_at_gvtc.com>
> > Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > Subject: RE: OT: CCIE != PhD
> >
> > Since Paul brought family into the discussion...allow me to expound on
that
> > my feelings...
> >
> > I was single (unmarried) when I attained a Bachelors in Computer Science
> > while holding a full time active career in the US Marines as a Staff
> > Sergeant.
> >
> > I'm now married with 7 children and trying to get a CCIE. (I've also
heard
> > college is very hard when you have a wife and children also)
> >
> > I think this is one of the most difficult things I've ever done....try to
> > get a CCIE while being a full time Sr Net Eng, father and husband...
> >
> > I think it would be one thing to attain the CCIE... but it's a whooole
> > other
> > thing to cross the finish line of CCIE and have my wife and children
proud
> > and happy for me, not resenting the CCIE that dad/hubby neglected them
> > while
> > pursuing. Paul thanks for the reminder....I needed it.
> >
> > I DO NOT want a CCIE if it means I have to be at odds with my wife,
> > children
> > and others over it.
> >
> > After all, when you are old and grey and perhaps breathing your last
> > breath,
> > do you want to be surrounded at your bed side by a bunch of GS'ers!! Ha,
no
> > of course not....you want the ones who you love (your family) around
> > you....
> > I'll end with that.
> >
> > Aaron
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
> > Paul
> > Negron
> > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 8:49 PM
> > To: Radioactive Frog; Travis Niedens
> > Cc: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> >
> > I've always said. You need to be able to take of your family at the end
of
> > the day.Hopefully you can help take care of others as well. Everything
else
> > is just a stroke job for your ego.
> >
> > Paul
> > --
> > Paul Negron
> > CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> > Senior Technical Instructor
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> > > Reply-To: Radioactive Frog <pbhatkoti_at_gmail.com>
> > > Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2012 13:24:07 +1100
> > > To: Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > > Cc: <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > > Subject: Re: OT: CCIE != PhD
> > >
> > > Completely agreed with Travis.
> > >
> > > Two completely different things.
> > >
> > > With CCIE we're not inventing or doing anything new but just like a
Chef
> > > show on the Tele.
> > > Who can cook, and how accurate it is.
> > >
> > > I guess at the end what really count is that your interest.
> > > The matter of the fact is that if you're really clever and have great
> > idea
> > > to develop something, you should not do CCIE at all - go for PhD.
(there
> > > would be an arguments that why do PhD if you've great ideas, inventive
> > > mind).
> > >
> > >
> > > However, if you're just doing a PhD without any great invention in mind
> > > (which most people do), then one would be better off with doing CCIE.
> > >
> > > Remember CCIE pays more than PhD ::)
> > >
> > > ccAr is definitely interesting.
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 3:46 PM, Travis Niedens <niedentj_at_hotmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> I usually don't speak out about this stuff however I have noticed way
> > too
> > >> many people comparing the CCIE to the PhD and quite frankly I find
that
> > an
> > >> absurd comparison. Anyone who has worked on their Masters and PhD can
> > >> attest to the rigor that is required for the PhD as well as the
process
> > >> involved and final goals. If you look at the CCIE it is a test that
> > >> encompasses:
> > >>
> > >> - A CISCO specific technology line
> > >> - Each test set has a fixed set of possible exams that are updated and
> > >> swapped time to time to avoid cheating
> > >> - Only requires configuration and troubleshooting - again, heavy Cisco
> > >> specific focus
> > >> - Graded by a system, confirmed by a human
> > >> - 8 hours to prove that you have absorbed enough knowledge to
configure
> > >> things the Cisco way
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> The PhD is not this at all, in fact the PhD's main goal is for the
> > student
> > >> to learn enough about their area of interest so they can build a
thesis,
> > go
> > >> out and scientifically research it and then DEFEND it and add to the
> > body
> > >> of human knowledge. While we all spend thousands of dollars, hundreds
if
> > >> not thousands of hours in labs / working and hours weekly responding
to
> > GS,
> > >> with the CCIE we are not creating anything new for the body of human
> > >> knowledge. I don't say this lightly as I know the vendors work hard on
> > >> their materials however if you look at two of them side by side you
will
> > >> see many of the same configurations as that's the way Cisco programmed
> > the
> > >> IOS parser to handle the magic.
> > >>
> > >> There are key milestones in the PhD process / journey including:
> > >>
> > >> - Research classes
> > >> - Academic writing classes
> > >> - Colloquia
> > >> - Comps
> > >> - Thesis Research
> > >> - Thesis Dissertation
> > >> - Thesis Defense
> > >>
> > >> Keep in mind that most universities have a 2 times and then out policy
-
> > >> thus meaning if you fail your comps or defense twice, you are out. You
> > have
> > >> just spent 10's of thousands of dollars and years on your thesis and
> > >> education and failed.
> > >>
> > >> In comparison, Cisco allows you to take the CCIE over and over and
over
> > >> and requires no original contribution to the field of
> > >> networking/security/voice/SP, etc. This is just to gain revenue and
> > ensure
> > >> Cisco skilled workers in IT worldwide.
> > >>
> > >> As I see it, the closest thing to a PhD Cisco has now is the CCAr.
While
> > >> Cisco's path to making and expanding this program has been rather
> > lengthy
> > >> and slow, I do hope that they continue to push it. The Ar cannot be
> > >> accomplished by just any testking and requires a defense. In addition
it
> > >> requires an initial response to questions, similar to comps, and they
> > MUST
> > >> be acceptable before moving on to the panel phase.
> > >>
> > >> So here's how I see it:
> > >>
> > >> Associates (2 years) - CCxA *
> > >> Bachelors (4 years) - CCxP *
> > >> Masters (6 years) - CCIE *
> > >> PhD (8+ years) - CCAr
> > >>
> > >> Good luck in your studies!
> > >>
> > >> Travis
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
> > >>
Received on Sun Mar 04 2012 - 12:42:50 ART