Re: PhD vs CCIE

That was the point I was looking for.

-- 
Paul Negron
CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
Senior Technical Instructor
> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> Reply-To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:25:44 -0800
> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
> Cc: <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>, <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>, <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
> 
> I don't know if any were PHDs that designed Cisco's equipment. Terry
> Slattery (CCIE 1026) wrote major or a portion of Eigrp, and i did not see a
> Dr. in front of his name, but he is a CCIE. George Morton who was a PHD
> before he attended my class and got his CCIE (Dual now) has a much better
> job than when he only had his PHD. May be you spent 30K to get your CCIE
> (And that is on the expensive side) but some spend 100s of thousands to get
> their PHDs, and i don't see a huge difference in salary.
> But i guess we are both looking at it from different angles.
> The guy who has a M5 BMW will always tell you that he kills Porsche turbo,
> and vice versa. But the truth of the matter is that it all depends on the *
> driver*. When i look at Bill Gates and the top 50 richest people in the
> world including Steve Jobs, i don't see Dr. in front of their names, but
> then again i don't see a CCIE number after their name.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
> 
>> No not really Narbik. The difference is that PhDs have to be unique -
>> CCIEs dont we all sit the same exam - or all of one of a number of exams.
>> There are more PhDs because there are more PhD students worldwide than
>> CCIEs. PhDs are supposed to move technological or other boundaries in some
>> way - when in the last ten (10) years have we seen a unique piece of work
>> from a CCIE that did that - who designs Ciscos equipment - CCIEs - I dont
>> think so.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> 
>>  -----Original Message-----
>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; ccielab
>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:55
>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>> 
>> BTW, so you see that number of CCIEs in the world has nothing to do with
>> the value of the cert. If it did, PHDs will have no value at all, i bet
>> there are 10 times more PHDs than CCIEs. A bad point.
>> 
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:25 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> Thats a nice question Narbikk. The answer is no but for one reason - PhDs
>>> are awarded by many universities but CCIEs are only awarded by one company.
>>> Is the question therefore do we really need so many types of CCIE or could
>>> we consolidate them into a more generalist CCIE. Doesnt the whole concept
>>> of UC for example mean for example that we need a more generalist sort of
>>> CCIE again ie what CCIE discipline doesnt have a high proportion of Routing
>>> and Switching ? Couldnt we revert back to a three day CCIE where you did
>>> the core as Routing and Switching and then the other two days in the
>>> specialist areas - security, wireless, service provider, etc
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com>
>>> To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>
>>> CC: joe <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>> ccielab <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 19:18
>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>> 
>>> Few years ago we had one or two tracks, these days we have more tracks.
>>> Do we know the number of people who have their PHDs?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Joe,
>>>> 
>>>> Agreed and why do you think there are now 26,000 CCIEs against 10,000 a
>>>> few
>>>> years ago - even certification is a money making business - I estimated I
>>>> spent around $30000 on getting my CCIE - between courses , labs, exams,
>>>> bootcamps , time of work - and I didnt pass it first time. I think there
>>>> is
>>>> only a 20% first time pass rate now and that means a lot of money to
>>>> someone.
>>>> 
>>>> And by the way I dont mind people making money out of me - even on
>>>> certification as long as I get value for money.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>  To: Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>; jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>;
>>>> ccielab
>>>> <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>>  Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:34
>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  Ib d bet dollars to cents 10,000+ of the 17,320 R/S guys are emeritusb&
>>>> 
>>>> If Cisco didnb t do that the cert would look like it isnb t as valuable
>>>> as
>>>> it was in 1999 and they couldnb t make as much money selling training
>>>> for it
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> From: Bill6521 [mailto:bil6521_at_netscape.net]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:29 AM
>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; jazzsunn_at_gmail.com; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>> Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Joseph,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Read my article in CCIE Flyer. Nor did they break it down by age or sex
>>>> or
>>>> nationality.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Bill
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joseph L. Brunner <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>  To: jazzsunn <jazzsunn_at_gmail.com>; Bill6521 <bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>> ccielab
>>>>  <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Sent: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 17:22
>>>> Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>> 
>>>> Notice they don't break down how many "Emeritus"
>>>> 
>>>> LOL
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>  From: jazzsunn_at_gmail.com [mailto:jazzsunn_at_gmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 11:15 AM
>>>> To: Joseph L. Brunner; Bill6521; ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>  Subject: Re: PhD vs CCIE
>>>> 
>>>> According to LTRCC-3000.pdf (updated 1/9/12, available on
>>>> ciscolivevirtual.com),
>>>> there are 26,634 currently certified CCIEs.
>>>> RS - 17,320
>>>> Sec - 3794
>>>> SP - 2885
>>>> Voice - 2291
>>>> SAN - 170
>>>> Wireless - 93
>>>> CCDE - 63
>>>> SP Ops - 11
>>>> CCAr - 7
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent via BlackBerry
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>  Sender: nobody_at_groupstudy.com
>>>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 16:07:02
>>>>  To: Bill6521<bil6521_at_netscape.net>;
>>>> ccielab_at_groupstudy.com<ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
>>>> Reply-To: "Joseph L. Brunner" <joe_at_affirmedsystems.com>
>>>>  Subject: RE: PhD vs CCIE
>>>> 
>>>> No there are far less CCIE's than that - many older lions are retiring
>>>> from
>>>> the
>>>> business.
>>>> 
>>>> Of that number how many are current on today's technologies?
>>>> 
>>>> Don't sell yourself short - I had a job req out at a client in 2009 for
>>>> a CCIE
>>>> at $225,000 or so - the first 50 guys we interviewed could not explain
>>>> how
>>>> DHCP
>>>> worked :) (DoRa for those of you that know)
>>>> 
>>>> "how many good ones"
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>  From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com] On Behalf Of
>>>> Bill6521
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 10:57 AM
>>>> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
>>>>   Subject: Fwd: PhD vs CCIE
>>>> 
>>>> Hi Guys,
>>>> 
>>>> I think we are all missing the point here the discussion from my point
>>>> of view
>>>> is "employability" and here is my perspective. Today I understand there
>>>> are
>>>> over
>>>> 30,000 CCIEs thats three times what there was a few years ago and even
>>>> 7,000 more then when I got my number. Gone are the days when employers
>>>> would
>>>> be
>>>> lucky about getting one CCIE and we were literally regarded as "network
>>>> gods".
>>>> We are competing against "each other" and in a highly competitive world
>>>> - even as CCIEs. In that competitive world you have to give yourself an
>>>> "edge"
>>>> a something extra - what I would suggest is dont just bank on getting
>>>> employed
>>>> because you are a CCIE - and dont forget some off us are also getting
>>>> employed
>>>> because we have track records as well as being CCIEs. Most employment
>>>> agents/HR
>>>> departments do a word trawl in the first instance and the more edge you
>>>> have
>>>> the
>>>> more likely you have to move to the next stage of interview etc thats
>>>> what
>>>> these
>>>> certifications do for you - and dont also be a one trick pony
>>>> - consider doing a JNCIE or HP Master ASE as well as another CCIE.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>>> Subscription information may be found at:
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  --
>>>  *Narbik Kocharians
>>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com*
>>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>>> Training & Remote Racks available
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>>  --
>>  *Narbik Kocharians
>> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
>> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
>> Sr. Technical Instructor
>> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
>> Training & Remote Racks available
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training & Remote Racks available
> 
> 
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> 
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net