Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM

I think Brian's are honest in there advice .Narbik please don't read too
much into this , it was just a discussion and I think it wasn't nothing
personal.As for DRM , i once bought IPEX vol1 but that was the last I used
after have diffuculty in Accessing the workbook due to DRM.

my 2cents ,Am not Brians spokesman .

Thanks

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 7:35 PM, Imran Ali <immrccie_at_gmail.com> wrote:

> discussing DRM VS NO DRM is very must relevant to students ..... and if big
> names are involved in it ..it is good for us in the end ....
>
> who complianed that this discussion shoud be in private ? how can you then
> hear from customers ?
>
> all thanks for Brain's and Narbik
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 1:01 PM, Shane K <shanekgs_at_gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > As long as everyone is making great products people will by them - end
> of.
> > After that it doesn't matter where the material is, if its awesome I buy
> > it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 3:54 AM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Narbik,
> > > This isn't some INE vs Narbik thread and sorry if you took it that way.
> > I
> > > don't know much about your operation and didn't even know you
> personally
> > > used Lock Lizard. I thought it was just the Cisco 360 material that
> used
> > > it and mentioned that in my earlier email.
> > >
> > > This was just a thread about DRM and the use of DRM in education.
> Didn't
> > > mean to upset anyone or piss anyone off. I just personally hate DRM
> ;-)
> > >
> > >
> > > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/**Voice)
> > > bdennis_at_ine.com
> > >
> > > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > > http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
> > >
> > > On 03/15/2012 07:57 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> > >
> > >> Guys,
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for your recommendation, i never thought that you all loved and
> > >> cared for me that much.
> > >>
> > >> When a student is configuring a lab, he/she configures the lab using a
> > >> laptop or a PC and NOT kindle, Iphone, Ipad, or Android, Brian this is
> > >> not a complex RFC or a CCIE puzzle.
> > >>
> > >> And i have not heard any complaints, Josh is the first one that has
> > >> complained about LockLizard and he did it in this thread, and this is
> > >> the first time i am hearing about it, he has never e-mailed me his
> > >> problems with DRM, have you Josh?
> > >>
> > >> Janet always provides extra licenses without any drama, the students
> > >> have the right to print the document or purchase the printed version.
> We
> > >> have been using this for a while now, and our products, which should
> be
> > >> the main topic here, speaks for itself.
> > >>
> > >> */but using DRM does hinder them from learning/*
> > >> We provide unlimited retakes, we promote education, we stay with our
> > >> students until they pass this test, my relation with my students
> starts
> > >> when our boot camp ends, I respond to my students questions, I ask
> them
> > >> to e-mail me their questions directly, I even give them my phone
> number,
> > >> we ask our students that have passed their test to retake the class at
> > >> least once a year (At no cost) so they can stay up to date, these are
> > >> the issues that provide education to the students and these are the
> > >> issues that we need to discuss and NOT "Hey we don't use DRM, we trust
> > >> everyone".
> > >>
> > >> */Maybe I could make more money if I locked it all down using DRM
> > >> security/*
> > >> I have never thought of making a little more money at my student's
> cost.
> > >>
> > >> We joined the 360 program, and this program is costing us an arm and a
> > >> leg, but we eat the cost so our students can benefit seeing this
> entire
> > >> thing from a different angle/perspective. You are talking to the wrong
> > >> person my friend.
> > >>
> > >> LockLizard/DRM does not guarantee anything, it just makes it harder
> for
> > >> the thieves. When you install Security cameras or lock your front door
> > >> at home, it does not guarantee anything, it just makes it harder and
> > >> hopefully deters the intruder.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com
> > >> <mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Arguing that website login authentication is the same is DRM is
> just
> > >> absurd, and I'm sorry, but using DRM does hinder them from
> learning.
> > >>
> > >> Any end user who has ever used *any* DRM solution knows that DRM
> > >> just ends up being a hassle at the end of the day, and still
> doesn't
> > >> deter people who really want to copy your books, movies, music,
> > >> software, etc. The only thing that DRM does really well is piss
> off
> > >> your legitimate customers.
> > >>
> > >> Does locklizard work on Windows, MacOS, Linux, iPad, iPhone,
> Kindle,
> > >> Android, and Windows Phone, etc.? If I buy electronic content and
> > >> I'm limited to using it on one specific platform with one specific
> > >> viewer with one specific plugin, then I'm sorry, that's a deal
> > >> breaker for me as a customer.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
> > >> bmcgahan_at_INE.com
> > >>
> > >> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> > >> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>**] On
> > >> Behalf Of Brian Dennis
> > >> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:03 PM
> > >> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> > >> Subject: Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> > >>
> > >> Narbik,
> > >> It doesn't limit their learning experience by requiring them to
> > >> login to download their purchases. Just because you're upset at
> our
> > >> stance on DRM you shouldn't need to reply in all caps.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/**Voice)
> > >> bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > >>
> > >> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 03/15/2012 03:31 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> > >> > Protecting your work does not mean that you are punishing your
> > >> honest
> > >> > paying clients, all they have to do is to click on our book and
> it
> > >> > opens and they can read and access it, how does that hinder them
> > >> from learning?
> > >> >
> > >> > BTW, WHY DO YOU GUYS HAVE A USERNAME AND PASSWORD FOR ACCESSING
> > YOUR
> > >> > WORKBOOKS, VIDEOS AND ETC? what is it..... you don't trust
> > >> people? WHY?
> > >> > leave it open, who ever paid, will click and access your stuff,
> > >> people
> > >> > that have not paid, they will NEVER do that. Correct? Are you
> NOT
> > >> > trying to protect your work?
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Our products are up there now and have been for years. It
> > >> doesn't
> > >> > mean I'm going to punish honest paying customers by
> > restricting
> > >> > their access and forcing them to use a horrible program like
> > >> > LockLizard or whatever that new one Cisco uses is called.
> > >> >
> > >> > I honestly believe that the vast major of people in this
> > >> world are
> > >> > honest and I'm not going hinder their learning experience by
> > >> > treating them like they are dishonest.
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210
> > (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/__**Voice)
> > >> >
> > >> > bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com> <mailto:
> bdennis_at_ine.com
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> > >> >
> > >> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >> > http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On 03/15/2012 02:53 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > So Brian what do you do when someone purchases your
> > >> book/s and
> > >> > puts it
> > >> > on one of these shared sites? What if the shared site is
> > >> in another
> > >> > country?
> > >> >
> > >> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Paul Negron
> > >> > <negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> > >> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>**>
> > >> > <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> > >> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com
> >**>>__>
> > >> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > GREAT
> > >> > --
> > >> > Paul Negron
> > >> > CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> > >> > Senior Technical Instructor
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > > From: Ryan West <rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> > >> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>
> > >> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> > >> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>>>
> > >> > > Reply-To: Ryan West <rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:
> rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> > >> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>
> > >> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> > >> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>>>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:32:18 +0000
> > >> > > To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:
> > >> narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> > >> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>
> > >> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> > >> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>>>
> > >>
> > >> > > Cc: Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> > >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>>,
> > >> > "ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> > >> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>>
> > >> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> **>
> > >> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> > **>>__>"
> > >> > > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>
> > >> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**>>
> > >> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com
> **>
> > >> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com**
> > >> >>__>>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > > Conversation: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I agree, they are great.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Sent from handheld
> > >> > >
> > >> > > On Mar 15, 2012, at 5:26 PM, "Narbik Kocharians"
> > >> > <narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> > >> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>
> > >> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> > >>
> > >> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > >> WOW, unbelievable. You guys are GR8.
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Brian Dennis
> > >> > <bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com> <mailto:
> bdennis_at_ine.com
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> > >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > >>
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>> wrote:
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>> INE does not use any sort of DRM for our PDFs or videos.
> When
> > >> > you buy the
> > >> > >>> product, it's yours to use as you see fit. You want the
> play
> > >> > the videos on
> > >> > >>> your phone, tablet, TV, computer, etc offline or online?
> You
> > >> > can do it.
> > >> > >>> You want to use the workbook PDFs on your phone, tablet,
> > >> > notebook, etc
> > >> > >>> offline or online? You can do it. You want to print the PDF
> > >> > 1000 times?
> > >> > >>> Then do it. I'm not going to restrict that.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> You bought it and it's your product. Just because someone
> > else
> > >> > isn't
> > >> > >>> honest I'm not going to treat you like you're dishonest.
> > Screw
> > >> > DRM.
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> --
> > >> > >>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/**__**
> > >> Voice)
> > >> > >>> bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> > >> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > >>
> > >> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>
> > >> >
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >> > >>> http://www.INE.com <http://www.ine.com/>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> On 03/15/2012 11:33 AM, Paul Negron wrote:
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>> Funny how everyone seems to AGREE on NDA integrity and then
> > >> > turns around
> > >> > >>>> and
> > >> > >>>> shares workbook material that they alone are licensed for.
> I
> > >> > feel the same
> > >> > >>>> way about software nowadays. Offer me the FULL version with
> > an
> > >> > option to
> > >> > >>>> buy
> > >> > >>>> it if I like it.(That's fair).
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>> The Brians, Narbik and every vendor that helps here works
> > very
> > >> > hard to
> > >> > >>>> give
> > >> > >>>> you the very best they have. Everyone should honor that.
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>> Unfortunately there will be always be the NOBLE cheater
> that
> > >> > feels they
> > >> > >>>> can
> > >> > >>>> just download a song off there buddy's laptop and feel that
> > it
> > >> > is somehow
> > >> > >>>> OK. Stealing is Stealing no matter how you spin it.
> > >> > >>>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> >
> > >> ______________________________**__**__________________________**
> > >> ______**
> > >> > >>> ___________
> > >> > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> > >> > >>> list/CCIELab.html
> > >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/__**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html>
> > >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >> >>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> --
> > >> > >> *Narbik Kocharians
> > >> > >> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > >> > >> *www.MicronicsTraining.com<http://www.micronicstraining.com/><
> http://www.MicronicsTraining <http://www.micronicstraining/>.
> > **com<http://www.MicronicsTraining.com<http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> >
> > >> >
> > >> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining. <http://www.micronicstraining./>
> **com<
> > http://www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>
> > >> >
> > >> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining. <http://www.micronicstraining./>
> **__com
> > >> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining. <http://www.micronicstraining./>
> **com<
> > http://www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>
> > >> >>*
> > >> >
> > >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**__com/
> > >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> > http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > >> >>
> > >> > >> Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >> > >> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > >> > >> Training & Remote Racks available
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >> > >>
> > >> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >> _______________
> > >> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/__**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html>
> > >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >> _______________
> > >> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/__**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html>
> > >> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >> >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > *Narbik Kocharians
> > >> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > >> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com<http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > >> <http://www.MicronicsTraining. <http://www.micronicstraining./>**com
> <
> > http://www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>>
> > >> <http://www.MicronicsTraining. <http://www.micronicstraining./>**com
> <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > >>*
> > >>
> > >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**__com/
> > >> > <http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> > http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > >> >>
> > >> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > >> > Training & Remote Racks available
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > *Narbik Kocharians
> > >> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > >> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/><
> http://www.MicronicsTraining. <http://www.micronicstraining./>**com<
> > http://www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>
> > >> >*
> > >> <http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> > http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > >> >
> > >> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > >> > Training & Remote Racks available
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
> > >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >> ___________
> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
> > >> ______________________________**______________________________**
> > >> ___________
> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/**list/CCIELab.html<
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> *Narbik Kocharians
> > >> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > >> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>* <
> http://www.micronicstraining.**com/<
> > http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > >> >
> > >> Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > >> Training & Remote Racks available
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > > ______________________________**______________________________**
> > > ___________
> > > Subscription information may be found at: http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> > > list/CCIELab.html <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> >
> >
> > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> > Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Sat Mar 17 2012 - 00:07:48 ART