From: rich (rich@pixguru.com)
Date: Tue Sep 17 2002 - 23:14:30 GMT-3
Are you saying that the "right" thing to do is go after this for the joy of
internetworking? I hadn't considered that people have moral standings on
what other people's goals are in relation to attaining a computer cert. Ok
that will certainly achieve my point that the ccie program should be
limited. After all, once we strip away the people going after this cert for
the money, a new job, a job at all, promotions, company requirements,
prestige, etc... We'll have a few people left that simply want to get this
cert for the "Joy of Internetworking." Woohooo!
----- Original Message -----
From: "certstudy" <certstudy@snet.net>
To: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 7:01 PM
Subject: OT: Re: MS-CCIE
> As you did Rich, I am sharing my thoughts here. The comments are not
meant
> towards you personally but they are meant to
> try and shine a light on the fact that way too many people are after this
> gig for the $$ and not for the Joy of Internetworking.
>
>
> > A couple of years ago, at the height of the dot com era, a CCIE in my
area
> > could easily pull in 150k. Did I start down this road for the money?
> Hell
> > yes. I already had field experience, a good job, seniority, respect,
and
> all
> > that stuff that makes work fun. Besides, CCIE would be a challenge.
But
> a
> > LOT has changed in the past couple of years. Bad economy. Fewer jobs.
> > Lowered salaries. And apparently a butt load of CCIE's! I mean wow!
And
> to
> > hear that many of them are just lab ccie's really brings the 8000+
CCIE's
> into
> > a different light. It brings my own efforts into the same light. It
> reminds
> > me of what happened to Novell certifications... I had just gotten my CNE
> when
> > I heard the term 'paper CNE' about a guy at the same company who carried
> cue
> > cards around to customers with commands written on them.
>
> Interesting--so you dont think that the growth in the Internet and the
fact
> that companies' reliance on
> their own networks and the growth of networking in general has had
anything
> to do with the increase
> in the number of CCIE's. There are currently over 150000 networks in a
full
> Internet routing table. can you imagine
> how many devices and networks are behind these?
>
> I will acknowledge the fact that pay rates have come down to realistic
> ranges again. this is due more to the economy than to the number of
CCIE's
>
> >
> > I haven't gotten my ccie yet but I'm hoping to. My chances would
probably
> be
> > greatly enhanced by going to a boot-camp, but I feel that would just add
> to
> > the problem.
>
> How is going to a boot camp adding to the problem? The boot camps that
are
> at the top of the list include
> instructors which Cisco itself calls on to 'Alpha" test new versions of
the
> tests. There is probably not one of us here who can say
> that he or she uses ALL of the tested technologies daily. what is the
> difference between locking yourself in a room for months or going to a
week
> long
> intensive session where you can practice in a structured environment. For
> me a good bootcamp means maximizing my study time and working on speed and
> time management which i personally have trouble doing alone in my home
lab.
>
> >Maybe limiting the number of active CCIE's in a country would
> > keep the certification from getting too bloated. Or maybe just stop the
> > certification process now or at a fixed number. Or better yet, allow no
> more
> > than 1000 a year (total) to be certified. Candidate selection process
> could
> > be a weighted drawing (increased chances every year).
>
> This makes huge sense. I can hear it now from the Cisco reps...."I am
sorry
> mr customer, we just cant sell any more routers this year.
> All of the qualified individuals that we have for support are too busy and
> we cant certify any more this year. We wouldnt want to water
> down the value of the certification.....Hello....Hello....hmmm mr customer
> must have hung up. I wonder why??"
>
> CCIE and all of the certifications are Cisco certs and it is in Cisco's
best
> interest to have a well trained and certified support
> infrastructure so they can sell more product.
>
> I think if we move to Guadalupe, Puerto Rico, Belarus, Lithuania, Latvia,
> Yugoslavia, Zimbabwe, Morocco, Bahrain, Jordan, Quatar, Kazakhstan, Sri
> Lanka or Vietnam you can be the second CCIE in any of those areas and
> probably demand a very, very high salary.
> >
> > I'm not trying to criticize anyone's efforts, but rather express the
> results
> > of those efforts. It's kind of liking moving into a new, quiet,
expensive
> > neighborhood. It's great until everyone else moves in, and suddenly
that
> > expensive house isn't worth what you paid for it.
>
> If all we are doing this for is to get into the fancy neighborhood, we are
> doing it for the wrong reasons.
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