From: Fred Watson (watsonf@verizon.net)
Date: Sun Sep 29 2002 - 12:15:22 GMT-3
Geoff,
Keep your non-technical non-CCIE-lab non-studygroup opinions to yourself.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Geoff Zinderdine" <geoffz@mts.net>
To: "Wilson Scot Capt AFCA/GCF" <Scot.Wilson@scott.af.mil>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 2:41 PM
Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
> Please keep in mind that this list is multinational and that many other
> nations don't support your nation's adventuring. If you are going to ask
> people to keep it technical, leave out mention of your country's dirty
> little wars.
>
> Geoff Zinderdine
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf Of
> Wilson Scot Capt AFCA/GCF
> Sent: Friday, September 27, 2002 1:54 PM
> To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
>
>
> Here is the reason why we have network engineers w/ CCIE and network
> managers with no real hands-on and troubleshooting ability. Let's face
it,
> we are techy geeks who care more about OSPF then about how a company earns
> money. I got a war and a CCIE lab to prepare for, lets keep it real...
> technical.
>
> Scot
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: elping [mailto:elpingu@acedsl.com]
> Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:58 PM
> To: certstudy
> Cc: rich; albert_lu@optushome.com.au; 'Meyer, J. (Johan)'; 'Tim Ross';
> ccielab@groupstudy.com
> Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
>
>
> my thoughs ..
>
> cisco does make a profit..
> all the racks and equipment is paid for ......they are tasting the gravy
now
>
> certstudy wrote:
>
> > you guys think Cisco actually makes a profit from any of the fees it
> charges
> > for any of the certs. do some math. there are probably a few dozen
> people
> > employed by the ccie program--half of them ccie level people. then
there
> is
> > equipment (pc's, racks, cabling). whatever cisco charges them for their
> > space on cco, their rent, etc. etc.
> >
> > at one time i thought that they were making money off the fees but do
the
> > math. anyway, the real profits from the certifications are by having a
> well
> > trained and prepared support infrastructure.
> >
> > anybody try to get a question answered by linksys or d-link lately. too
> > small? how about avaya, expanets or lucent??
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> > To: <albert_lu@optushome.com.au>; "'Meyer, J. (Johan)'"
> > <JohanMe@nedcor.com>; "'Tim Ross'" <ross2k@pclv.com>;
> > <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 7:53 AM
> > Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
> >
> > > Have you seen their lab? The one in San Jose doubles as a storage
> > closet..
> > > It's well organized, but NOT data center like at all..
> > >
> > > 10 people a day at San Jose
> > > That's $12,500 a day. Not bad for one proctor and their own assets.
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Albert Lu" <albert_lu@optushome.com.au>
> > > To: "'Meyer, J. (Johan)'" <JohanMe@nedcor.com>; "'Tim Ross'"
> > > <ross2k@pclv.com>; "'rich'" <rich@pixguru.com>;
<ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 4:14 AM
> > > Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
> > >
> > >
> > > > Actually from what I was told by a proctor, cisco doesn't really
make
> > that
> > > > much money from CCIE lab exams. Since they have to pretty much have
a
> > mini
> > > > 24x7 data centre for the lab with raised floors, ups, air
> conditioning,
> > > > power, rent, also salaries for proctors, plus not all labs are
always
> > > booked
> > > > out. I've always thought that cisco would be making a killing with
the
> > lab
> > > > exams, but having worked in a datacentre in my past life I could
> imagine
> > > how
> > > > all those costs could really add up.
> > > >
> > > > Albert Lu
> > > > CCIE #8705
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com]On Behalf
Of
> > > > Meyer, J. (Johan)
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 5:18 PM
> > > > To: 'Tim Ross'; rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: RE: MS-CCIE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lets look at the BIG Picture!!
> > > >
> > > > Cisco is a Successful aggresive Bussiness so I dont think they will
> > limit
> > > > this certification.
> > > > It brings in a span of money!
> > > > That is why it was changed from a 2 day to a 1 day LAB as before
when
> > they
> > > > could schedule
> > > > max 2 labs a week they can now have 6 .Thats 3 times the revenue
than
> > > > before!!
> > > > What succesful Bussiness man would turn that down!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Johan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Tim Ross [mailto:ross2k@pclv.com]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2002 8:40 AM
> > > > To: rich; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > > Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure I get the point either. In your post you said you have
> > > > experience, and got in the business for the money, yet you did not
> > become
> > > a
> > > > CCIE when you could make a lot of money by being a CCIE. Now that
the
> > job
> > > > market is not so good for CCIE's you want to become a CCIE. Also,
> > please
> > > do
> > > > not start limiting the number of CCIEs per country until after I
pass.
> > > > Thanks.
> > > >
> > > > Happy studying,
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:43 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: MS-CCIE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Could you possibly miss the point any more?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: "Tom Larus" <tlarus@cox.net>
> > > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 6:54 AM
> > > > > Subject: MS-CCIE
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > If the CCIE is not worth much these days, and you are in it
> > primarily
> > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > money, and you already have a good job, and respect, and know so
> > much
> > > > more
> > > > > > than those "lab rat" CCIEs, just stop pursuing the CCIE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You don't need it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You should stand pat on your experience and be comfortable in
> > knowing
> > > > that
> > > > > > years of experience will always trump demonstrated intelligence.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tom Larus, CCIE #10,014
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "rich" <rich@pixguru.com>
> > > > > > To: <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2002 9:04 PM
> > > > > > Subject: MS-CCIE
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > A couple of years ago, at the height of the dot com era, a
CCIE
> in
> > > my
> > > > > area
> > > > > > > could easily pull in 150k. Did I start down this road for the
> > > money?
> > > > > > Hell
> > > > > > > yes. I already had field experience, a good job, seniority,
> > > respect,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > all
> > > > > > > that stuff that makes work fun. Besides, CCIE would be a
> > challenge.
> > > > > But
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > LOT has changed in the past couple of years. Bad economy.
> Fewer
> > > > jobs.
> > > > > > > Lowered salaries. And apparently a butt load of CCIE's! I
mean
> > > wow!
> > > > > And
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > hear that many of them are just lab ccie's really brings the
> 8000+
> > > > > CCIE's
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > > a different light. It brings my own efforts into the same
> light.
> > > It
> > > > > > reminds
> > > > > > > me of what happened to Novell certifications... I had just
> gotten
> > my
> > > > CNE
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > I heard the term 'paper CNE' about a guy at the same company
who
> > > > carried
> > > > > > cue
> > > > > > > cards around to customers with commands written on them.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I haven't gotten my ccie yet but I'm hoping to. My chances
> would
> > > > > probably
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > greatly enhanced by going to a boot-camp, but I feel that
would
> > just
> > > > add
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > the problem. Maybe limiting the number of active CCIE's in a
> > > country
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > keep the certification from getting too bloated. Or maybe
just
> > stop
> > > > the
> > > > > > > certification process now or at a fixed number. Or better
yet,
> > > allow
> > > > no
> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > than 1000 a year (total) to be certified. Candidate selection
> > > process
> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > be a weighted drawing (increased chances every year).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'm not trying to criticize anyone's efforts, but rather
express
> > the
> > > > > > results
> > > > > > > of those efforts. It's kind of liking moving into a new,
quiet,
> > > > > expensive
> > > > > > > neighborhood. It's great until everyone else moves in, and
> > suddenly
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > expensive house isn't worth what you paid for it.
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