From: Xy Hien Le (byme88@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Apr 03 2006 - 14:25:56 GMT-3
Yeah, but how many of you with MBAs will become a CEO with earnings int he
multi-million dollar range???? and where would you be without Internet now
and next 20 years?
X
----- Original Message -----
From: "CCIEin2006" <ciscocciein2006@gmail.com>
To: "Cisco Engineer" <hsm_p@hotmail.com>
Cc: <cisco@groupstudy.com>; <ccielab@groupstudy.com>
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: CCIE vs. degree
> Although I don't agree with all your points, I do agree that an MBA is
> better than CCIE in 2 ways:
>
> 1. As a CCIE working for an organization there is a ceiling to your
> earning
> potential somewhere in the $150k range. (There may be a few exceptions but
> for the most part few companies will pay you more than $120k no matter how
> good you are). An MBA can move up to become a CEO with earnings in the
> multi-million dollar range.
>
> 2. MBA has permanance in the following ways:
> A. You don't have to renew it every 2 years.
> B. MBA will still be recognized 20 years from now. Will the CCIE still be
> valued 20 years from now? Maybe we should ask the people who got their
> Master Certified Novell Engineer certification ten years ago...
>
>
> On 4/3/06, Cisco Engineer <hsm_p@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> From time to time I read people trying to compare CCIE with some kind of
>> degree; I thought that this may be cool to share my own experience. In
>> general, I agree with what nrf has mentioned throughout the last many
>> years!
>> But in some points we are different.
>>
>> Let me share my background first. I got my Bachelor of Applied Science
>> (Engineering degree) back in 1998. And then I work as a Network Engineer
>> until last August. During the last six years, I was working full time as
>> a
>> Network engineer, got my CCXX (I am a CCIE of 7xxx series in RS (second
>> try)
>> and Security (first try)) and picked up Master of Engineering and MBA
>> (from
>> top 25 US b-schools) along the way (M.Eng/MBA+CCIE+full time work). Then
>> I
>> quitted my job last year and return to school full time (yes, some CCIE
>> like
>> me switched career) to study PhD in operation management (from top-25
>> b-school). In terms of the Cisco cert, it took me 2 years in the
>> industry
>> to get from nothing to CCIE. During the last 1 year where I actively
>> study
>> for CCIE, I spent 3 or 4 hours during weekday and 3 or 4 hours during
>> weekend to study. (I dont consider myself to be very smart, because I
>> have
>> seen so many smarter people around me!) Therefore, with my background, I
>> hope that it makes my point a bit more persuasive.
>>
>> I know that you may find some of the comparison is like comparing apple
>> to
>> orange. So please bear with me... (You are free to delete this email if
>> you
>> dislike my comparison.) Because otherwise, every comparison can be apple
>> to
>> orange, even comparing CCIE Security to CCIE Voice.
>>
>> 1. Compare CCIE to PhD or even to Master degree (assume it is not from
>> some
>> no-name school) is ridiculous. According to my own experience, CCIE at
>> most
>> can be as hard as a second year calculus (yes, just a single second year
>> course, not even a bachelor degree). The content of CCIE is not
>> difficult
>> at all, assume that you can master differential equation.
>>
>> 2. The passing rate of CCIE lab exam is much lower than the passing rate
>> of
>> any courses (PhD, Master, and Bachelor). There are two reasons. First,
>> there are lots of low-quality people taking the CCIE lab exam, which drag
>> down the CCIE passing rate. Second, it really takes a longer time to
>> study
>> for the CCIE lab exam than a second year calculus. It is because first
>> year
>> calculus has already prepared me for the second year calculus. Also, it
>> is
>> difficult to have the time, resource to study. And most of all, this is
>> an
>> expensive and stressful exam! All things being equal (no stress, cheap
>> exam), I think that for people who can get an A or B in the second year
>> calculus, I think that he can pass the CCIE lab exam within 3 months
>> after
>> CCNA level if he can study full time, with all equipment, have all the
>> material and have a teacher to ask when he/she had problem.
>>
>> 3. CCIE is not god of networking. CCIE is only god of passing CCIE exam
>> and
>> nothing else. For instances, you don't need to know Poisson process or
>> any
>> queuing algorithm (you don't call yourself "knowing" FIFO/PQ/WFQ if all
>> you
>> know is just some simple calculation or configuration) to pass the CCIE
>> written exam (and for the lab exam, you need to know NOTHING about
>> queuing,
>> other than how to configure it). I never claim myself good at networking
>> at
>> all. When I need to configure a network, all I can say is that, "let's
>> see
>> how far I can go". (I don't mean that I am lack of self-confidence in
>> front
>> of the customer. I just mean that I really know that there is so many
>> things
>> that I have absolutely no idea about.) Therefore, expect some CCIE
>> coming
>> to your company to know how to complete all your requirement is
>> ridiculous.
>> I can fake to know lots in front of others, but in the bottom of my
>> heart,
>> I
>> know that I have many limits.
>>
>> 4. As opposed to what nrf once mentioned, PhD is god of their own field.
>> This is oxymoron if you are PhD but you are not god in your own field.
>> After you have spent five years in something as narrow as, let say,
>> Virtual
>> Link of OSPF (not everything about OSPF, but only the virtual link), then
>> you should be god of Virtual link of OSPF. Therefore, a PhD knows
>> everything about nothing. To continue my analogy, if you ask a PhD about
>> a
>> stub OSPF network (nevertheless other routing protocol, or switching, or
>> security/voice), that PhD may not know. (Contrast to a CCIE, who knows
>> little bit about several Cisco things)
>>
>> 5. The average salary of a CCIE (assume with the same year of experience)
>> is
>> higher than the average salary of any degree (except MBA). A history
>> full
>> professor only makes $40k, and a business professor (on the high end)
>> would
>> make about $100k. But a CCIE would likely make more than $100k (even
>> though
>> I made less than $50k when I was a CCIE)
>>
>> 6. As opposed to what nrf once mentioned, being admitted is NOT the most
>> difficult part of graduating from a top school. It is certainly true
>> that
>> being admitted to a top school is tough. (Being admited to the bachelor
>> degree of top school is very hard, and being admited to a top school's
>> PhD
>> program is almost impossible. You think that the average passing rate of
>> CCIE lab is 3 times is low? What about the admission rate of top school
>> is
>> 3-10%, with all the applicant are the best of the best in their own
>> school?)
>> But if you think that you will graduate simply because you are admitted,
>> you are dead wrong. Of course getting through the once-per-year
>> admission
>> cycle is very hard. However, the project and the homework will kill you!
>> Everything else (compare to the intense 8 hours CCIE lab) is walk in
>> park.
>>
>> 7. (Since I am interested to be a professor, let me devote my last point
>> for
>> those who are currently a professor). Continue from #6. If you think
>> that
>> graduating from a top PhD school is tough, then how about able to find a
>> tenure-track job from a top school? And if you think that you are hired
>> by
>> a top school is tough, how about making the tenure? (my point is,
>> difficult
>> never ends...)
>>
>> My post by no means to devalue CCIE certificate. Having a degree would
>> only
>> get you the ticket for admission. So does having a CCIE certificate.
>> The
>> rest is still up to you. However, it is true that having a CCIE or
>> having
>> a
>> degree have a strong relationship to being able to success in your
>> career.
>> therefore, this is a good and quick tool for the HR to filter out lots of
>> people. Of course there is outlier, such as Bill Gates. However, do you
>> think that you are the next Bill Gates? You may think so, but the HR or
>> the
>> hiring manager may not share your thought! If they don't hire you, then
>> start another company, get rich, and buy that company (like how AOL
>> purchased Times)
>>
>> This is my 2 cents. (That's the beauty about academic. In the
>> networking
>> world, there is only one way to do stuff (aka Cisco way) but in academia,
>> you have freedom to express your controversial thought!)
>>
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