From: Narbik Kocharians (narbikk@gmail.com)
Date: Fri Jun 13 2008 - 19:47:13 ART
If Cisco knows that Test King and idiots alike are giving away the test
questions, why don't they change the test to be all simulations and change
the scenarios lets say every month? or as Keith recommended identify all the
bad vendors (As long as it does not include me).
The person who wrote this obviously does not know Ethan, and I think he ran
out of things to do in life and he was very very bored, and he decided to
pick on someone, but I guess he picked on the wrong guy. But this guy is NOT
Cisco nor does he represent Cisco. My comments to this guy is "Get a life
M8, and why don't you buy test king and pass the test and show us how its
done?????
I know Ethan very well, it does NOT take that long to know this man, he is
"what you see is what you get kinda man" he was in my CCIE R&S Boot Camp
couple of times, I can Tell you guys this much, if any one had his
motivation, courage, enthusiasm and love for what he does, they would also
pass the exam in their first attempt.
His love for this certification would NOT allow him to cheat or do anything
to jeopardize the integrity of the exam.
You can take any ones comments and twist them around and make a federal case
out of it, and i guess this is a perfect example.
He always told the other students in my class to watch out and respect
Cisco's NDA, and I know that he meant it.
I think Ethan is one of the most ethical students that I've had in my class,
he is hard working, motivated, and ETHICAL.
By the way Keith you have not changed, but i love your sense of humor
On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:27 PM, keith tokash <ktokash@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ug, I was hoping this wouldn't make it to the list. The main problem with
> the
> article is that it makes a logical leap. If someone admits to using a
> product
> like TK, they are not admitting to cheating - they are admitting to using a
> product like TK. The distinction is not semantics. As I commented on that
> knob's site, I didn't get a pamphlet from Cisco listing "bad" vendor
> material
> the day after I told my wife I was going to start studying for the CCIE.
> How
> do we find out that braindumps are verboten? Word of mouth (and finger).
>
> When I started studying for the CCIE I had no idea who TK, Pass4Sure, or
> any
> of the other vendors were. In fact, I spent the first 3 months just
> plunking
> away at the CLI without any vendor workbooks at all because I'd never heard
> of
> ANY vendors. Some guy I worked with every few months swung by and told me
> about IE, and a star was born! Ok, maybe a little dramatic, but you get
> the
> point.
>
> You can't write an NDA that says candidates can't look at material that
> violates the rules because it lists exact test questions and scenarios,
> never
> publish the test questions or scenarios yourself, and then hold people
> accountable for breaking the NDA by looking at vendor solutions that are
> exact
> copies of exam material.
>
> X + Y = 17 - Go ahead and tell me what X equals.
>
> The only way this is in any way plausible is if Cisco starts publishing and
> maintaining a list, which I doubt they'll do due to liability. Making the
> list is a sure-fire way to lose your business, so Cisco would have to have
> their ducks in a row for the inevitable lawsuits, just like the
> anti-spammers
> have to do nowadays.
>
> As for that Robert guy, I went to Cal, which has about 15 million
> protesters
> in Sproul Plaza every day yelling about everything from "Free Mumia" to
> California's cows not really being happy like the commercials say. This
> guy
> feels just like they did, which is to say he's *hoping* you disagree with
> him
> so he can explode all of his prepared arguments on your face. If you
> happen
> to get a solid point in it won't make any difference, because when a train
> of
> thought is that focused and moving that fast, it doesn't change course.
>
> I'd never heard of him before this, and God/Allah/Darwin/Buddha willing,
> he'll
> just go away, maybe get a career of his own. But alas, according to the
> history of the world, it was soon after the first artist was born that the
> first art critic arrived.
>
> The information in this e-mail is intended for the
> attention and use of the everyone in the world, or I wouldn't have sent it
> in
> an unencrypted email. This message or any part thereof can and should be
> disclosed, copied, distributed and retained by any person without
> authorization from the addressee. Furthermore, I reserve the right to
> disclose, copy, distribute and retain anything anyone sends *me* via email,
> up
> to and including putting the exact text in a MySpace bulletin.
>
>
> > From: smorris@ipexpert.com
> > To: paul.cosgrove@heanet.ie
> > CC: luan@t3technology.com; joe@affirmedsystems.com;
> Anthony_Sequeira@skillsoft.com; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 14:07:53 -0400
> >
> > Yup. Very true.
> >
> > Very valid points. And Robert seems to have a fairly black-and-white
> > academic view of things. Which, if you are trying to create/push a
> > standardization makes perfect sense!
> >
> > Ah well, hopefully things will die down a bit and Ethan can come back to
> the
> > world of the living. Although I'd bet he chooses his words much more
> > carefully going forward. ;)
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Paul Cosgrove [mailto:paul.cosgrove@heanet.ie]
> > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 1:39 PM
> > To: Scott Morris
> > Cc: 'Luan Nguyen'; 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Anthony Sequeira';
> > ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > Subject: Re: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> >
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> > I can see your viewpoint, but whenever I see posts here about 'real labs'
> I
> > assume they are advertisements by rip off vendors; Robert seems to be
> making
> > the opposite assumption. Maybe his guess is right, but it too seems to
> be
> > only a guess.
> >
> > Robert feels strongly about TestKings and the like, so strongly,
> according
> > to his blurb, that "Robert decided that it was time for someone to
> dedicate
> > their time to preventing the spread of these illegal products and
> > services.And CertGuard was born."
> >
> > Personally I don't think he helps his chosen career path as an upholder
> of
> > examination standards by targeting individuals who state that these
> > documents do not contain what some may think, namely that they do not
> appear
> > to be copies of the actual lab. This is a point which Robert does not
> > appear to accept, but having put his own examinations on hold, it is
> unclear
> > exactly why he holds such firm beliefs.
> >
> > Robert clearly assumes that Ethan looking at a testking is evidence of a
> > desire to cheat. If someone looks at documents which they believe to
> hold
> > NDA material, I would look poorly upon it. But I certainly wouldn't
> assume
> > the worst and brand someone a cheat based on the three sentences all this
> > stems from. I can't say what Ethans thoughts were, and I doubt Robert
> has
> > that insight, but I've never met a CCIE candidate who expressed an
> opinion
> > that anything other than hard work would get them through a lab. I would
> > wonder why someone, if they had a desire to cheat, would apparently only
> > look at old material.
> >
> > Seems ironic that the person here who seems to be effectively promoting
> the
> > use of this type of material is Robert himself. He seems to be the only
> > person who is suggesting they hold any secrets about the lab, and is
> raising
> > their profile and damaging his own cause and reputation in the process.
> >
> > Paul.
> >
> > Scott Morris wrote:
> > > I'm not supporting what Robert William's did in crucifying Ethan!
> > > Don't get me wrong....
> > >
> > > And while I appreciate the difference of "looking" at something versus
> > > "relying" on them. But like I said, where do you draw the line?
> > >
> > > We tend to give more "leeway" when someone going for a higher
> > > (hands-on) cert that just looks at that material to help them get
> > > higher up. Would you look at someone differently who was only going
> > > to go as far as their CCNP but had used that material to help them pass
> > the tests?
> > >
> > > I know that reality gives a lot more grey area than the academic view
> > > Robert posted of "he admittied that he cheated therefore he's a
> > > cheater", but where does that line get crossed?
> > >
> > > Why doesn't Cisco go after them? Excellent question, and I'm not the
> > > one to answer that! My guess it that it would involve the quantity of
> > > money and differing laws in different countries where many of these
> > > companies are based. I could be wrong, but I seem to think that TK was
> a
> > british company.
> > > Microsoft tried to go after them a while back but wasn't very
> > > successful as I recall.
> > >
> > > So right, wrong, or indifferent they are going to be around. The
> > > difference seems to be do you ONLY know the TK (or other) information,
> > > or have you REALLY learned stuff beyond that. And I know the I don't
> > > have the time or energy to try to figure that one out with people. ;)
> > >
> > > *shrug* One of those things in life we will have to deal with in our
> > > hiring practices!
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Luan Nguyen
> > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:27 PM
> > > To: 'Scott Morris'; 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Anthony Sequeira';
> > > ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >
> > > Is it wrong to look at TK product? I vaguely remember someone posted
> > > on one of the board a couple days ago on how to use TK and subscribe
> > > to Safari do do a search for solution. If Cisco knows about TK and
> > > others, why don't THEY do something about it? Instead letting people
> > > like CertGuard making profits by proclaiming themselves protector of
> the
> > cert virgin.
> > > Oh, and admitting to look at TK and others' so called braindump
> products?
> > > Lots of people do - famous one too :)
> > >
> > > -Luan
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Scott Morris
> > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:06 PM
> > > To: 'Joseph Brunner'; 'Anthony Sequeira'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >
> > > I think they are more worried about the idea that people download
> > > questions to magically obtain certifications which they may or may not
> > > be qualified for.
> > >
> > > I think we've all seen that. In fact a search of the archives will
> > > show many discussions of this over the years in different fashions.
> > >
> > > So while it's a very real problem, I think the article went a little
> > > too far in crucifying Ethan. I really don't know anything about Ethan
> > > and haven't ever worked with him, but it seems a little harsh to
> devalue
> > all he has done
> > > based on his posting, but he DID admit to using the TK product! I
> seem
> > to
> > > recall people in here getting flamed for even asking about "real labs"
> > > let alone admitting to using them.
> > >
> > > Where does the line get drawn?
> > >
> > > Just a thought.
> > >
> > > Scott
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Joseph Brunner
> > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 11:55 AM
> > > To: 'Anthony Sequeira'; ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >
> > > certguard is afraid of testking because they are too stupid to figure
> > > out how to download it...
> > >
> > > They should be more worried about learning how to use cisco hardware
> > > than worrying about what certs other people have...
> > >
> > > lets see their list certs!
> > >
> > > Joseph Brunner
> > > CCIE, CCDP, CCNP, CCDA, CCNA, MCSE 2003
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Anthony Sequeira
> > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 11:53 AM
> > > To: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >
> > > This Network World post has a link to a comparison of TestKing and the
> > > TESTiT product I helped create for NetMasterClass. The link no longer
> > works.
> > > Anyone have access to that comparison?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Anthony J. Sequeira
> > > #15626
> > > www.freeiestuff.com
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Paul Cosgrove
> > > Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 10:39 AM
> > > To: Tony Varriale
> > > Cc: ccielab@groupstudy.com
> > > Subject: Re: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >
> > > Search for Ethan Banks at www.networkworld.com
> > >
> > > Tony Varriale wrote:
> > >> Anyone have a link?
> > >>
> > >> tv
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of
> > >> SAMARTH
> > >> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 8:55 AM
> > >> To: 'Dane Newman'; 'Joseph Brunner'
> > >> Cc: 'Isabella Figarella'; 'Gregory Gombas'; 'Sadiq Yakasai'; 'Andy';
> > > 'Luan
> > >> Nguyen'; 'Brian Dennis'; 'Cisco certification'
> > >> Subject: RE: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >>
> > >> Ethan needs to be supported against baseless attacks. I remember how
> > >> I
> > > was
> > >> attacked by an unknown person personally few weeks before for raising
> > > my
> > >> voice against a vendor.
> > >> Anyways truth always triumphs. Hope everything will get sorted.
> > >>
> > >> Best Wishes.
> > >> SAMARTH
> > >> CCIE #18535
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: nobody@groupstudy.com [mailto:nobody@groupstudy.com] On Behalf
> > > Of Dane
> > >> Newman
> > >> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 2:36 PM
> > >> To: Joseph Brunner
> > >> Cc: Isabella Figarella; Gregory Gombas; Sadiq Yakasai; Andy; Luan
> > > Nguyen;
> > >> Brian Dennis; Cisco certification
> > >> Subject: Re: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >>
> > >> I must also agree and support Ethan on this.
> > >>
> > >> He did the work. It is documented. Certguard just wants to make a
> > > name for
> > >> themsevles attacking someone so well known as Ethan.
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 1:10 AM, Joseph Brunner
> > > <joe@affirmedsystems.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> what are they attacking him for? sure he was a little slow on
> > >>> getting
> > > it
> > >> (I
> > >>> tracked his progress against mine :-)
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I failed a few times, I think he passed on the first try.. so that
> > > proves
> > >>> slow and steady works. how could they attack him?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Certgard needs to get a life (and a graphic designer, and web
> > > designer).
> > >>> their home page lacks credibility.and aesthetic quality.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> _____
> > >>>
> > >>> From: Isabella Figarella [mailto:gigi.ccie@gmail.com]
> > >>> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2008 1:01 AM
> > >>> To: Joseph Brunner
> > >>> Cc: Gregory Gombas; Sadiq Yakasai; Andy; Luan Nguyen; Brian Dennis;
> > > Cisco
> > >>> certification
> > >>> Subject: CCIE on Trial at NetworkWorld
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> The 2 guys at Certguard who claim to have "years of experience" are
> > >>> attacking Ethan Banks. I read their bull and visited their site.
> > > They
> > >> are
> > >>> lamers who need to rattle chains to be heard. I guess everyone
> > >>> needs
> > >> their
> > >>> 15 minutes of fame.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> They imply years of experience it looks like a year of experience
> > >>> and barely have any hits on their forum except their own.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> So how to fix it? Attack Ethan Banks the top CCIE Blogger. Anyone
> > > else
> > >>> think this is just wrong?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > _
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> > >>
> > >
> > >
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-- Narbik Kocharians CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security) www.Net-Workbooks.com Sr. Technical Instructor
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