Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM

Narbik,
This isn't some INE vs Narbik thread and sorry if you took it that way.
  I don't know much about your operation and didn't even know you
personally used Lock Lizard. I thought it was just the Cisco 360
material that used it and mentioned that in my earlier email.

This was just a thread about DRM and the use of DRM in education.
Didn't mean to upset anyone or piss anyone off. I just personally hate
DRM ;-)

Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
bdennis_at_ine.com

Internetwork Expert, Inc.
http://www.INE.com

On 03/15/2012 07:57 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> Guys,
>
> Thanks for your recommendation, i never thought that you all loved and
> cared for me that much.
>
> When a student is configuring a lab, he/she configures the lab using a
> laptop or a PC and NOT kindle, Iphone, Ipad, or Android, Brian this is
> not a complex RFC or a CCIE puzzle.
>
> And i have not heard any complaints, Josh is the first one that has
> complained about LockLizard and he did it in this thread, and this is
> the first time i am hearing about it, he has never e-mailed me his
> problems with DRM, have you Josh?
>
> Janet always provides extra licenses without any drama, the students
> have the right to print the document or purchase the printed version. We
> have been using this for a while now, and our products, which should be
> the main topic here, speaks for itself.
>
> */but using DRM does hinder them from learning/*
>
> We provide unlimited retakes, we promote education, we stay with our
> students until they pass this test, my relation with my students starts
> when our boot camp ends, I respond to my students questions, I ask them
> to e-mail me their questions directly, I even give them my phone number,
> we ask our students that have passed their test to retake the class at
> least once a year (At no cost) so they can stay up to date, these are
> the issues that provide education to the students and these are the
> issues that we need to discuss and NOT "Hey we don't use DRM, we trust
> everyone".
>
> */Maybe I could make more money if I locked it all down using DRM
> security/*
>
> I have never thought of making a little more money at my student's cost.
>
> We joined the 360 program, and this program is costing us an arm and a
> leg, but we eat the cost so our students can benefit seeing this entire
> thing from a different angle/perspective. You are talking to the wrong
> person my friend.
>
> LockLizard/DRM does not guarantee anything, it just makes it harder for
> the thieves. When you install Security cameras or lock your front door
> at home, it does not guarantee anything, it just makes it harder and
> hopefully deters the intruder.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:51 PM, Brian McGahan <bmcgahan_at_ine.com
> <mailto:bmcgahan_at_ine.com>> wrote:
>
> Arguing that website login authentication is the same is DRM is just
> absurd, and I'm sorry, but using DRM does hinder them from learning.
>
> Any end user who has ever used *any* DRM solution knows that DRM
> just ends up being a hassle at the end of the day, and still doesn't
> deter people who really want to copy your books, movies, music,
> software, etc. The only thing that DRM does really well is piss off
> your legitimate customers.
>
> Does locklizard work on Windows, MacOS, Linux, iPad, iPhone, Kindle,
> Android, and Windows Phone, etc.? If I buy electronic content and
> I'm limited to using it on one specific platform with one specific
> viewer with one specific plugin, then I'm sorry, that's a deal
> breaker for me as a customer.
>
>
> Brian McGahan, CCIE #8593 (R&S/SP/Security)
> bmcgahan_at_INE.com
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.INE.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>
> [mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:nobody_at_groupstudy.com>] On
> Behalf Of Brian Dennis
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 6:03 PM
> To: ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> Subject: Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
>
> Narbik,
> It doesn't limit their learning experience by requiring them to
> login to download their purchases. Just because you're upset at our
> stance on DRM you shouldn't need to reply in all caps.
>
> --
> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/Voice)
> bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
>
> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> http://www.INE.com
>
>
> On 03/15/2012 03:31 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> > Protecting your work does not mean that you are punishing your honest
> > paying clients, all they have to do is to click on our book and it
> > opens and they can read and access it, how does that hinder them
> from learning?
> >
> > BTW, WHY DO YOU GUYS HAVE A USERNAME AND PASSWORD FOR ACCESSING YOUR
> > WORKBOOKS, VIDEOS AND ETC? what is it..... you don't trust
> people? WHY?
> > leave it open, who ever paid, will click and access your stuff,
> people
> > that have not paid, they will NEVER do that. Correct? Are you NOT
> > trying to protect your work?
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 3:08 PM, Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > Our products are up there now and have been for years. It
> doesn't
> > mean I'm going to punish honest paying customers by restricting
> > their access and forcing them to use a horrible program like
> > LockLizard or whatever that new one Cisco uses is called.
> >
> > I honestly believe that the vast major of people in this
> world are
> > honest and I'm not going hinder their learning experience by
> > treating them like they are dishonest.
> >
> > --
> > Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/__Voice)
> >
> > bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> >
> > Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > http://www.INE.com
> >
> >
> > On 03/15/2012 02:53 PM, Narbik Kocharians wrote:
> >
> > So Brian what do you do when someone purchases your
> book/s and
> > puts it
> > on one of these shared sites? What if the shared site is
> in another
> > country?
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:37 PM, Paul Negron
> > <negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>>
> > <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>
> <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com <mailto:negron.paul_at_gmail.com>>>__>
> > wrote:
> >
> > GREAT
> > --
> > Paul Negron
> > CCIE# 14856 CCSI# 22752
> > Senior Technical Instructor
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Ryan West <rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>
> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>>>
> > > Reply-To: Ryan West <rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>
> <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>
> > <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com <mailto:rwest_at_zyedge.com>>>>
> >
> > > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2012 21:32:18 +0000
> > > To: Narbik Kocharians <narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>
> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>>>
> > > Cc: Brian Dennis <bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>>,
> > "ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>__>"
> > > <ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>
> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>
> > <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com <mailto:ccielab_at_groupstudy.com>>__>>
> >
> > > Conversation: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> > > Subject: Re: OT----OT----SPv3 - DRM
> > >
> > > I agree, they are great.
> > >
> > > Sent from handheld
> > >
> > > On Mar 15, 2012, at 5:26 PM, "Narbik Kocharians"
> > <narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>
> > <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>
> <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com <mailto:narbikk_at_gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> > >
> > >> WOW, unbelievable. You guys are GR8.
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 2:19 PM, Brian Dennis
> > <bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> INE does not use any sort of DRM for our PDFs or videos. When
> > you buy the
> > >>> product, it's yours to use as you see fit. You want the play
> > the videos on
> > >>> your phone, tablet, TV, computer, etc offline or online? You
> > can do it.
> > >>> You want to use the workbook PDFs on your phone, tablet,
> > notebook, etc
> > >>> offline or online? You can do it. You want to print the PDF
> > 1000 times?
> > >>> Then do it. I'm not going to restrict that.
> > >>>
> > >>> You bought it and it's your product. Just because someone else
> > isn't
> > >>> honest I'm not going to treat you like you're dishonest. Screw
> > DRM.
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> Brian Dennis, CCIEx5 #2210 (R&S/ISP-Dial/Security/SP/**__Voice)
> > >>> bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>
> > <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>
> <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com <mailto:bdennis_at_ine.com>>>
> >
> > >>>
> > >>> Internetwork Expert, Inc.
> > >>> http://www.INE.com
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 03/15/2012 11:33 AM, Paul Negron wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> Funny how everyone seems to AGREE on NDA integrity and then
> > turns around
> > >>>> and
> > >>>> shares workbook material that they alone are licensed for. I
> > feel the same
> > >>>> way about software nowadays. Offer me the FULL version with an
> > option to
> > >>>> buy
> > >>>> it if I like it.(That's fair).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The Brians, Narbik and every vendor that helps here works very
> > hard to
> > >>>> give
> > >>>> you the very best they have. Everyone should honor that.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Unfortunately there will be always be the NOBLE cheater that
> > feels they
> > >>>> can
> > >>>> just download a song off there buddy's laptop and feel that it
> > is somehow
> > >>>> OK. Stealing is Stealing no matter how you spin it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>>
> > >>>
> >
> ________________________________**________________________________**
> > >>> ___________
> > >>> Subscription information may be found at:
> > http://www.groupstudy.com/**
> > >>> list/CCIELab.html
> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html
> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> *Narbik Kocharians
> > >> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > >> *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>
> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>
> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining.__com
> > <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>>*
> >
> > <http://www.micronicstraining.__com/
> > <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>
> > >> Sr. Technical Instructor
> > >> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > >> Training & Remote Racks available
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >>
> > >>
> >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> > >> Subscription information may be found at:
> > >> http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html
> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >
> > >
> > > Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________________________
> > > Subscription information may be found at:
> > > http://www.groupstudy.com/__list/CCIELab.html
> > <http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Narbik Kocharians
> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com
> <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com> <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>*
> > <http://www.micronicstraining.__com/
> > <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training & Remote Racks available
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > *Narbik Kocharians
> > *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> > *www.MicronicsTraining.com <http://www.MicronicsTraining.com>*
> <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> > Sr. Technical Instructor
> > YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> > Training & Remote Racks available
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
> Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> Subscription information may be found at:
> http://www.groupstudy.com/list/CCIELab.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> *Narbik Kocharians
> *CCSI#30832, CCIE# 12410 (R&S, SP, Security)
> *www.MicronicsTraining.com* <http://www.micronicstraining.com/>
> Sr. Technical Instructor
> YES! We take Cisco Learning Credits!
> Training & Remote Racks available

Blogs and organic groups at http://www.ccie.net
Received on Thu Mar 15 2012 - 20:54:14 ART